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SysDsgnMan
02-12-2005, 02:58 PM
Hey everyone,

I'm one of the new guys on the forum. I’ve spent the last 17 years in the audio/video business, mostly as a custom installer. I have pretty much seen the gambit. I even owned an installation business for 3+ years (still not sure I’ve mentally recovered yet). I now work on the Manufacturers Representative side (about 8 months now). Now, that I have an opportunity to visit a lot of custom/CEDIA dealers, I am appalled at the lack of pre-design, general paperwork, and legal contracts being utilized. I mean it’s like these guys are jumping out of an airplane without a parachute.

It seems like a lot of these companies are quick to say yes to get a job, then its all boo-hoo and how they were put through the ringer by the client. I always tried to be thorough when I was on the installation side of the business. I always looked out for the company’s best interests first. That meant knowing what needed to be done, and making sure all parties understood the project clearly (and legally). I've also noticed a good amount of shoddy workmanship. Not only on customer jobs, but even in there own showrooms as well. Is this the way our industry is going? Is it just a general malaise, or are these people just undercutting themselves so badly that they can’t even afford do the job right in the first place?

I'm not saying this is everyone in my area, but some companies are truly suspect.

I was wondering if anyone else has made similar observations.



Are you seeing planes? Is your name Tattoo? Because I swear to God, you're living on Fantasy Island.

-Steve Butabi "Night at the Roxbury"

Shadowman68
02-13-2005, 10:44 PM
As a small and young firm, I have not had the time to devise an all encompassing contract. Nor have I had the finances to hire a lawyer to draw up said contracts. My proposals to the clients have a small section at the bottom with stipulations and other agreements such as payment schedules, changes to the original design etc.
I would love to see CEDIA post a generic contract for service on their website, it would certainly solve a few headaches.
I cant speak for other companies, but for myself, I usually jump into a job because the drywall is going up tomorrow. There isnt sufficient time to put together a design proposal. I have yet to meet with a client before the framing has started or even when the house is in the design stages. Its always been a call at 5pm from the owner saying the drywall goes up in 2 days and we want to do this or that.
As for the shoddy workmanship, I for one will not leave a jobsite until I am completely satisfied with every aspect of my installation. I dont cut corners. I have junked 100 foot lines of Cat5e because there was a kink half way. I ususally spend an extra 10-15 hours of my own time on each job checking the install over to ensure there are no mistakes, checking to ensure all the cables are tied neatly out of place so dumbass drywallers dont run a screw through the cable, checking to see all my macros and discreets are functioning. Hell I have even catalogued a 400 disk cd changer. I tell people the reason they are paying more is because I am the best. What kind of person would I be if I lied?

vwpower44
02-14-2005, 07:30 AM
We use the LawDepot.com. It is only $45 per year for an online service contract. You input all of the work you are going to be doing, the different labor charge per hour, The Cust name, etc. It also also applies local, state, and national laws according to your zipcode.

www.lawdepot.com

Mike

install1
02-14-2005, 06:40 PM
There are also lots of contracts available for free on the 'net. The first service contract that I ever used was one that I downloaded for free and then modified it to suit my clientele. Then when money allowed I had one drafted. It was really pretty cheap when I went to my lawyer since I already had 4 different service contracts to give him as samples. He said that it made it a no brainer for him and $500.00 later I had an all encompassing contract. Just needed to figure out what I wanted in it myself. DTools also has a rough contract available.

rhm9
02-14-2005, 11:40 PM
DON"T use the d-tools contract... blasted thing cost me $1700.00 cash in a settlement because my partner didn't remove its verbosity from our normal contract. Being that it said "the client may make changes to the contract" our position that we didn't want to do the deal after his "changes" ended up leaving us with no profit... we pretty much got told to pay up. You have to be very careful. Our contract is a result of a lot of plagiarism that has been looked over very carefully by a well paid attorney. Theres a lot of good language and coverages in it. If anyone would like a word doc to peruse and modify, let me know.

Shadowman68
02-15-2005, 12:09 AM
I would love to see a copy, thanks rhm9

vette84
02-15-2005, 12:16 AM
I would love a copy too. Thanks

whdigital
02-15-2005, 01:14 AM
Me too if it's not too much to ask!

ejfiii
02-15-2005, 05:34 AM
Oh oh, me too. Please. Thanks RHM9.

internet@feulner.us

Greg_C
02-15-2005, 06:46 AM
Roland, I'll take one too. I'll pay you back with Sake and Sushi at CEDIA.

vwpower44
02-15-2005, 07:22 AM
me too please. just to compare. Thanks.

Mike

ejfiii
02-15-2005, 09:14 AM
You know a place to post files on this insider only site would be great. We could make our own mini Ideas Book (like CEDIAs). Only ours would be better since we are all the creme of the crop. :)

SysDsgnMan
02-16-2005, 10:36 AM
Roland,

If you would send me a copy of the document, I would greatly appreciate it.

Andy

rhm9
02-17-2005, 09:44 AM
SHAME SHAME SHAME on me for not checking in sooner. We are in the Seattle Home Show which starts Sat the 19th and have been putting in 17-18 hour days... Here I make an offer to you good people and don't follow through... SORRY

Please send me e-mails to rolandm@cedi.tv. I will be in Hawaii from tomorrow morning through the 28th (first vacation since 1998 so don't think I'm rich or anything!). When I get back I will forward a copy of this to any of you who mail me. It is not copyrighted so you are free to plagiarize, add, subtract or whatever. Expect it in early March... sorry again but I won't even be in the office today and I have to pull the Word Doc out of D-tools.

ToddBAdams
02-17-2005, 07:47 PM
you can find a standard contract as part of the business essentials package on www.dipartner.com

Though I would suggest the problem goes beyond a contract and is really about the scope of work aka the proposal. Your proposal should be a written word document that spells out in detail what the customer is getting for the money. This does not mean a list of gear and pricing, but the functionality of the system. here is an example of a good proposal for a structured wiring system. It is very clear what the customer is getting and as a result there is little to argue over at the end of the project.

Enjoy and if you'd like a ms word copy emial me and i'll send it along.



Structured Wiring
To meet our ever–increasing demands for technology at home, a broad range of communication and multimedia services must be available throughout our homes. Telephone, home networks, Internet, cable television, satellite, and high definition television – all these elements of consumer electronics have special cabling requirements we call structured wiring. Structured wiring lays the foundation that allows your technology devices to work together to make your daily life convenient and more pleasurable.
As part of a structured wiring plan for your home, we have designed wallplates and panels that allow us to connect the necessary cables in your home to the integration system. At the wallplates and panels, which are installed in key locations that you help select in your home, you receive immediate access to:
Broadband Internet
Shared files, printers, and other online resources on all your computers
Multiple telephone line
High–definition signals for Off–Air (traditional TV), Satellite and Cable
Home–wide music system
Our Certified Installers will meet every requirement of the EIA/TIA 570A Residential Wiring
Specifications.
Wallplates
You can choose wallplates with our standard colors of white, ivory, almond, and black; or you can select wallplates with one of the special finishes that are available. Our wallplates fit the décor of any home. You can select any number or combination of the wallplates listed below.
Hanging Telephone Wallplate – The hanging telephone wallplate allows connections for two (2) telephone lines.
Telephone & Networking Wallplate – The telephone & networking wallplate allows connections to four (4) telephone lines and a home network.
Multimedia Wallplate – The multimedia wallplate allows connection to cable television, satellite, four (4) telephone lines, and a home network.
Surround Sound Wallplate – The surround sound wallplate allows for two (2) connections to cable television, two (2) connections to satellite, connections to four (4) telephone lines, your home network, your home–wide music system, your home–wide integration system, and also cabling for surround sound speakers.
Music & Video Output Wallplate – The music & video output wallplate sends a music and video signal from the main entertainment center to the wallplate.
Music & Video Input Wallplate – The music & video input wallplate sends a music and video signal from the wallplate to the main entertainment center.
Speaker Cabling – Speaker cables that are included are enough to cable one pair of architectural speakers.
Speaker Wallplate – The speaker wallplate includes cabling for one pair of speakers and a wallplate suitable for connecting bookshelf speakers.
Distribution Panels
A variety of distribution panels to complement your wallplatesfrom are listed below. Media panels are generally located in an electronics closet in the basement or other unobtrusive area of the home.
System Telephone & Home Networking Media Panel – The System Telephone & Home Networking Media Panel is designed to connect the telephone system, home networking switches, and routers to the wallplates. This panel is clearly labeled for easy troubleshooting and customer upgrades.
Cable Television Panel – The cable television panel is designed to bring a sharp, clear picture to every television in your home, using a radio frequency (RF) amplifier. In addition, by using integrated infrared technology, it allows you to control your DVD player, satellite receiver, digital cable box, or any other audio/video device and all your televisions. Just point and click your handheld remote control at the compact infrared (IR) box on any of your televisions. The IR box sends a signal to a central location (often in your basement) and it instantly obeys your command. The IR technology also allows you to share a satellite signal or one cable box among several televisions, and allows you to keep unsightly cable boxes in your basement and not on top of each television.
High Definition Digital Satellite Panel – An HD satellite panel includes a 21–inch satellite dish and a multiswitch that takes the high definition satellite signal and distributes it equally to televisions throughout your home.
Off–Air High Definition Television (HDTV) and FM Reception Panel – The off-air HDTV and FM panel includes an unseen digital antenna for off–air HDTV and FM reception. Reception is dependent on the location of your home and actual channels will vary.


Your Structured Wiring Selections
The table below shows each wallplate in your home. We will field locate each wallplate in the rooms shown below with a “cabling” sticker. This will give you an opportunity to approve all locations before the home is cabled.
Location Hanging Telephone Telephone
&
Networking Multimedia Surround Sound Music Input Output Speaker Wiring or Wallplate
Kitchen
Breakfast Rm
Study
Living Rm
Dining Rm
Family Rm
Deck
Garage
Master Bdrm
Master Bath
Bedroom 2
Bedroom 3
Bedroom 4
Theater Rm
Game Rm




Totals


Distribution Panel Capacity
Telephone & Networking
Television
High Definition Satellite
Off Air HDTV & FM Reception

Our responsibilities
We will cable, install, terminate, and finish all Telephone, TV, Satellite, Phone System, Computer, Music System, and Theater items as contracted.
We will maintain workman’s compensation through out the complete project.
We will acquire all necessary permits and observe all national and local building codes.
We will provide specification of all contracted equipment installed with built–in cabinetry.
We will install all finished equipment after the customer has taken possession of the home. This may take up to 60 days depending on the complexity of the system.
What We Need Your Contractor to Do
Provide various electrical outlets where needed for auxiliary devices throughout the home. These locations are often needed for Televisions, Computer peripherals, Telephone chargers etc… These locations will be laid out during the rough electrical walk thru or as specified on the plans.
Provide two dedicated 20 Amp services in the basement located at main panel for telephone, television, music, and networking.
Provide conduit to the street for Telephone and CATV services.
Provide conduit for use for exterior speakers or connections to exterior buildings.
Provide a wood panel to accommodate the equipment in the basement and needed floor area for the equipment.
Cut in all of our devices that will be installed in custom cabinetry, baseboard molding, and other finished woodwork.
We need to be involved with the cabinet designs that will house our equipment. We will need wiring access, ventilation, and power for the installed equipment. We are therefore requesting to be copied on all cabinetry design; in addition we request final approval before any of this cabinet is built.


Meet Your Project Team
Sal Moore is your Sales Representative. He will insure your project requirements are met, and will act as your agent throughout the process. At the appropriate time he will collect your preferences for color, programming, speaker selection, and handle any custom requests along the way to a successful project.
Cell: (999) 555 – 1212
Email: sal.moore@illusiontheaters.com
Ira Geek is your sales engineer. He will design the nuts and bolts of your project, ensuring each product and service has been thoroughly engineered for serviceability, repeatability, and reliability.
Cell: (999) 555 – 1212
Email: ira.geek@illusiontheaters.com
Owan Ginizer is your project manager. He is responsible for all actives and deliverables on your project. He will work closely with your architect, general contractor, and other trades to insure a successful project.
Cell: (999) 555 – 1212
Email: owan.ginizer@illusiontheaters.com
Joe Trade is your cabling, termination, and move-in team leader. He is responsible for site work during the construction of the project.
Cell: (999) 555 – 1212
Email: joe.trade@illusiontheaters.com
Steve Smith is your service team manager, he will work with you at the completion of the project to help you understand all aspect of the system, and provide you with continued service after the project completion.
Cell: (999) 555 – 1212
Email: steve.smith@illusiontheaters.com

Theaterworks
02-18-2005, 11:52 AM
I have issues with your descritions in the scope of work; vauge in spots, open to interpretation (specifically what you're trying to avoid), and long for the amount of content.

I couldn't agree more that a specific scope of work is needed to define what will and will not be delived to the job.

If that guy in the upper right of the web site main page you refer to reported to work at my office with that kind of scruffy beard, I would send him home for a shave, tie or not. :-)

rhm9
03-02-2005, 08:58 PM
SORRY for the server hogging verbosity here but so many of you wanted to see this that I thought I'd just post it. You guys can use whatever you want except of course the cutting edge design name.

HAVE AN ATTORNEY CHECK IT OUT FOR YOU AFTER MODS.

THis is nothing but the working relationship contract... the scope of work is separate but note the inclusions of documents in the verbage.

Good luck...

CONTRACT FOR SERVICES


NOTICE TO CUSTOMER: This contractor holds current registration as a General Contractor (CUTTIED013PA) and a Low Voltage Electrical Contractor, subdivisions 06 & 09 (CUTTIED992N7) in the State of Washington and has posted with the State a bond or cash deposit of $12,000.00/$4,000.00 for the purpose of satisfying claims against Contractor for negligent or improper work or breach of contract in the conduct of the Contractor’s business. This bond or cash deposit may not be sufficient to cover a claim which might arise from the work done under your contract. If any supplier of materials used in your construction project or any employee of the Contractor or subcontractor is not paid by the Contractor or subcontractor on your job, your property may be liened to force payment. If you wish additional protection, you may request the Contractor to provide you with original “Lien Release” documents from each supplier or subcontractor on your project. The Contractor is required to provide you with further information about Lien Release documents if you request it. General Information is also available from the Washington State Department of Labor and Industries.
1) NATURE OF AGREEMENT: This agreement is for the sale and installation of electronic equipment and/or modifications to premises. It is between Cutting Edge Design, Inc (CONTRACTOR) and __________________________________________________ ___________ (CLIENT). Individual jobs for the Client (the Work) shall be determined by all Contract Documents which include A) Proposal Documents and Plans; B) Cutting Edge Design, Inc. Field Invoices and C) Change Orders all of which, together with any exhibits are incorporated herein. It shall remain on file as the defining document to the Terms and Conditions of all jobs performed for Client by Contractor. This Agreement may not be modified except by written agreement. It shall bind the heirs, executors, administrators, successors and assigns of each party hereto. Nothing contained in any documents shall create a contractual relationship with a third party and no other person or entity shall have any third party beneficiary or other rights hereunder. It constitutes the entire agreement between the parties and supersedes all prior agreements, oral or written and all other communications between parties relating to the subject matter of this Agreement.
2) PAYMENT, INTEREST, DEFAULT: 2.1) Client agrees to pay the Contract Price in full plus any Change Orders. Payment Schedule will be derived from dividing the Work into Phases. Work scheduled to be started and finished within a week’s time shall consist of a single Phase. All Equipment associated with any Phase must be paid for at least 1 week prior to commencement of that Phase. In addition, a deposit of 33.3% of the labor involved in completing that Phase must also be paid prior to commencement. Payment in full is due immediately at the completion of the Phase. Final payment of the Work is due upon Substantial Completion or Client’s use of the Equipment as installed, whichever is earlier; less the reasonable cost to complete any Punch List items. Punch Lists will be done in writing and final payments will be due immediately upon their completion. 2.2) Unpaid balances beyond 10 days of invoicing shall incur interest at 1.5% per month. 2.3) If Contractor refers or assigns any past-due balance to an agent or attorney for collection or realization of collateral, Client will pay all related costs incurred by Contractor, including attorney’s fees, whether or not a suit is filed.
3) CLIENT”S RESPONSIBILITIES: Client will remove from the entire area in which the Work is to be performed, any valuable property that is subject to damage or breakage, including without limitation furniture, paintings, artwork and personal effects. If the Work is interrupted for any reason, Client will protect and maintain the Premises and all work in progress. Once Equipment is delivered to the Premises, Client will at all times bear the risk or loss thereof. Client covenants not to interfere or allow any condition under his/her control to persist which interferes with the Contractors performance of the Work. Small children and pets must be kept away from tools and work areas.
4) CHANGE ORDER AUTHORIZATIONS: Once the Work has been defined by Contract Documents, any changes in the scope of the Work, the manner or schedule of its performance or specified Equipment shall be in the form of a Change Order signed by the Client and Contractor. Except, Contractor may proceed with incidental (under $300.00) changes in the Work under this agreement without prior notice to the Client if waiting for the Client’s inspection and approval would delay the completion of the Work or otherwise increase Contractor’s cost of completion. Change Orders shall be paid in full upon acceptance and shall not alter the Contacts Payment Schedule.
5) DESIGN RETAINER: All drawings and designs are contingent on retainer. Since preparing a proposal requires system design and engineering by a professional Systems Integrator, only one version of the proposal will be prepared without a retainer. Any additional proposals, drawings or designs, or a project for design and documentation only will incur a minimum $400.00 design retainer. Pricing for design work above and beyond the minimum will be determined. The retainer is for design time and/ or documents and drawings and is not refundable.
6) UNFORESEEN CONDITIONS: 6.1) The Contract Price is based on information provided by the Client regarding the suitability of Client’s site and is subject to the condition that no unknown or unforeseen building defects or conditions (including without limitation the presence of asbestos or other hazardous substances or conditions) that would significantly impede the Work or the cost of performing the Work exist. 6.2) Client shall disclose any knowledge of hazardous materials (as defined by law), known or suspected. Should hazardous materials be disclosed or discovered after this Agreement is signed, then, at Contractors sole option it may terminate this Agreement and Client pays for all labor and materials expended and/or required emergency measures plus 20% overhead and profit. 6.3) Contractor does not assume responsibility for corrections of existing Code Violations or the repair of any existing defects unless specified in this Agreement. 6.4) If job is of a retro-fit nature on an existing structure, Client acknowledges that the Work involves alterations to Client’s premises. Such alterations include without limitation cutting holes, removal of trim and changes to wall surfaces, floor coverings and other elements of the building. At the time of installation, Contractor will make a reasonable effort to reinstall and patch alterations. Contractor is not responsible for aesthetic or finish details unless such responsibility is specifically detailed in writing. If unforeseen conditions cause additional time to complete or if finish details are performed by Contractor, Client agrees that he/she will be charged at a rate of $65.00 per man hour for all extra labor involved in completing the job.
7) LIMITATION OF LIABILITY: 7.1) Contractor shall not be held liable for any damage to the interior or exterior of the Premises on which the Work is performed or damage to any contents therein unless such damage is the result of sole negligence of Contractor. 7.2) Contractor will leave Premises Broom Clean and shall not be liable for any cleaning charges. 7.3) Contractor assumes no liability for the performance of any Existing Equipment used in the work. 7.4) Contractor reserves the right to replace proposed models in the event of obsolescence, discontinuation or unavailability with a comparable model of equal or greater value and shall not be held responsible or liable in any way for these conditions 7.5) Contractor will use its best efforts to install all Equipment in a manner consistent with industry practice and good construction technique. However, Contractor makes no warranty, express or implied, that the Equipment, as installed, will perform to any particular standard or quality. 7.6) Contractor shall not be liable for special, indirect, consequential or punitive damages, even if Contractor has been advised of the possibility thereof. In any event, the total liability of Contractor for breach of any of its obligations hereunder under any theory, whether in contract or tort, will be limited to an amount not to exceed the Contract Price.
8) LIMITED WARRANTY: Contractor warranties workmanship and installation materials free of defects for a period of 360 days after Substantial Completion. Warranty is not effective until full payment has been made. Claims by Client to this warranty must be made in writing. Client specifically acknowledges that under this Agreement for Services, Contractor provides only the Manufacturer’s Warranties to supplied equipment. Per Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (Public Law 93-637) (Consumer Products”), Contractor will provide all exhibits pertaining to Manufacturer’s Warranties to Client. Service charges will apply if Contractor has to remove defective Equipment for shipping and all shipping charges are the responsibility of the Client.
9) ADDITIONAL CHARGES: 9.1) Client acknowledges that the costs associated with any related Work or Materials, including without limitation Electrical Work, Drywall, Painting, Cabinets, Plumbing, Framing, Underground Trenching or laying or supplying conduit for outside wiring are not covered unless specifically documented in the proposal. 9.2) If Contractor is called in to work and prevented from performing Work by, including without limitation; Subcontractors such as painters spraying or covering work areas, Non-show of Client, Access not provided in the event of Client’s absence, or any other circumstance, Client agrees to pay a Service/Trip charge of $75.00 plus any tolls or mileage charges. 9.3) If Client’s job requires Emergency Work (less than 7 business day’s notice), Client agrees to pay for all express freight charges and an additional 15% of the Work performed. 9.4) If any installation services, Equipment Delivery, service or instruction calls require Travel over 30 miles by road from Contractor’s office, a charge of _________ per mile will apply. 9.5) If Work requires Airfare, Tolls or Hotel Stays, these will be the responsibility of the Client to pay.
10) FORCE MAJEURE/ DELAYS: 10.1) Contractor’s performance hereunder will be excused to the extent it is prevented from performing by Acts of God, Storm, Fire, Flood, Explosions, Earthquakes, Civil or Military Authority, Act of Public Enemies, War, Strikes or any other cause beyond its’ control. 10.2) Contractor shall not bear the responsibility of delay in its’ performance due to Changed Conditions at Installation Site, Equipment Shortage, Discontinuations implemented by manufacturers, Strike or Labor Shortage, or Change Order. 10.3) Client is not entitled to damages for delay.
11) PERMITS: Client is responsible for the cost of all permits
12) INSURANCE: Contractor shall purchase and maintain such insurance necessary to protect Client from claims under workers compensation and from any damage to the owner’s property resulting from the conduct of the Work specified. Contractor will hold owner harmless with respect to claims of subcontractors and suppliers.
13) ENFORCEABILITY: If any provision of this Agreement is found invalid, illegal or unenforceable in any respect; the validity, legality and enforceability of the remaining provisions shall not be affected, and such remaining provisions will be given effect to the extent permissible under the applicable law.
14) CANCELLATION: Client may cancel any Contract For Services by written notice to Contractor prior to commencement of the Work, provided that Client pays a Cancellation Fee equal to five percent (5%) of the total charges specified on the Contract for Services plus the cost of any Work performed prior to the receipt of Client’s cancellation. Any Equipment ordered prior to the receipt of Client’s cancellation shall be the responsibility of the Client to purchase plus any and all freight charges.
By signing below, Client: 1) Warrants that (s) he is the owner or common law agent of the real property where the work will be performed under this Agreement; 2) has carefully read this document and all other Contract Documents concerning this work, understands their contents and has freely negotiated all aspects to his/her satisfaction and agrees to be bound by same.




Client Date






CED Rep Date

rhm9
04-14-2005, 08:53 AM
Just a bump as LowVoltGuy had asked to see this on a different thread.

lowvoltguy
04-14-2005, 11:09 AM
Just a bump as LowVoltGuy had asked to see this on a different thread.
Thanks ... I knew it was around here somewhere ... I was looking in the verified section ...