PDA

View Full Version : favorite receiver as an installer?



motech
09-23-2008, 12:51 PM
im for onkyo, love the pricepoint and the feature set . .
706 and above ofcourse . . 232 etc . .

i know most installers prefer integra . .
but id rather sell a higher line onkyo for the same price . .

jimstolz76
09-23-2008, 12:57 PM
Marantz all the way for us.

Discretes for everything, rs232, reliability, performance. Everything from $349 AVR to $7,000+ Reference series.

motech
09-23-2008, 01:01 PM
Marantz all the way for us.

Discretes for everything, rs232, reliability, performance. Everything from $349 AVR to $7,000+ Reference series.

interesting ,
i am open minded . .
whats their cheapest rcvr thats got 2 zone audio
and analog to digital (composite / component up to hdmi) upconverting with rs232?

for onky its the 706 (the 606 has most except for the 232)

def90
09-23-2008, 01:01 PM
Denon has never let me down

SAAudio
09-23-2008, 01:06 PM
interesting ,
i am open minded . .
whats their cheapest rcvr thats got 2 zone audio
and analog to digital (composite / component up to hdmi) upconverting with rs232?

for onky its the 706 (the 606 has most except for the 232)

The SR5003 has all of these features at $800 retail I believe.

motech
09-23-2008, 01:07 PM
im also looking for volume osd on screen while using strictly HDMI in and out . .
any opinions on this?

jimstolz76
09-23-2008, 01:08 PM
interesting ,
i am open minded . .
whats their cheapest rcvr thats got 2 zone audio
and analog to digital (composite / component up to hdmi) upconverting with rs232?

for onky its the 706 (the 606 has most except for the 232)

Our base model is the SR5002 (now the 5003). The MSRP on that is $799 (was $749). Converts video up to HDMI.

The next model down, the 4003 does s-video to component upconversion and (I believe) no 2nd zone audio.

Overall, we love the line.

georgep
09-23-2008, 01:22 PM
Marantz all the way for us.

Discretes for everything, rs232, reliability, performance. Everything from $349 AVR to $7,000+ Reference series.

We switched from Integra to Marantz. Sound quality in a side-by-side test in our office was the convincing factor. Then after a few months, Integra saw reduced volume and dumped us...

As you get into the higher end Marantz units: 7002, 8002 and their Separates, the audio quality over Integra, Yamaha and Denon was much better sounding on music. On surround material, it was hard to discern a difference but the team here and 3 customers we brought in all favored the Marantz on 2-channel music sources. (ARQ with CD's ripped uncompressed and at 320K mp3 was used in the test)

The now disco'd Integra DTR 10.5 is going to get replaced by the new Marantz 8003 separates in our demo theater room.

I will tell you that previous to the xxx3 Marantz models, the OSD for setting up the receiver is horrible. They have improved it on the latest models.

Integra did have two integration features we used that are lacking on Marantz:

1- Direct input turn on. You can send an input command to an Integra and the receiver will turn ON to that input if it was off. Very cool - fast switching and easy programming.

2- Intellivolume - you can set an integra to come on at a specified volume level. This is not as big a deal as #1 because the Marantz IR and RS-232 protocol lets you set the volume level directly with a command. We do this on our power down macro so it turns on at a pre-determined level.

But in the end, we are providing a better experience for the clients with Marantz. Of course this is our opinion and yours may differ. Do a shootout and see for yourself!

Later,

George P.

Elston
09-23-2008, 01:26 PM
Marantz all the way. I just got another 4002 for my secondary surround system and couldn't be happier.

smcnally
09-23-2008, 01:44 PM
im for onkyo, love the pricepoint and the feature set . .
706 and above ofcourse . . 232 etc . .

i know most installers prefer integra . .
but id rather sell a higher line onkyo for the same price . .

Integra is the higher line Onkyo. ;-)

Soundsgood
09-23-2008, 01:46 PM
Marantz for us, the 7002 is the one we use most of the time.

2ndRick
09-23-2008, 02:09 PM
Integra did have two integration features we used that are lacking on Marantz:

1- Direct input turn on. You can send an input command to an Integra and the receiver will turn ON to that input if it was off. Very cool - fast switching and easy programming.For the record, Denon now offers this as well.

I think it's a nice feature to eliminate some programming time, I can see some simpler systems where you can bypass macros altogether with this.

motech
09-23-2008, 02:57 PM
so far it seems to be

marantz
denon
integra


anyone know which receiver (dual zone with hdmi upconvert)
will show volume osd when using an all hdmi set up?

mdelzer
09-23-2008, 03:15 PM
From a control standpoint my vote is Integra. As for sound quality it doesn't come up too often as an issue nor do we very often install a set of speakers where you'd be able to really tell the difference anyway. Most customers trust us as installers to point them in the right direction. If it's not easy to use I don't care how good it sounds they are gonna have beef and not use it as much or at all. :wink:

Mark

niv
09-23-2008, 03:24 PM
another Marantzian here. Its always been good to us, as stated the OSD has something to be desired but i believe they have improved that with the new versions rolling out.

AndyM
09-23-2008, 04:23 PM
Marantz... We sell mainly the 8002 and 7002 and have a couple sets of the separates out there. LOVE THE SEPERATES!

The new Rotel stuff looked very promising at CEDIA. We will continue to sell their stuff at the higher end of things... assuming the HDMI is reliable.

fedders
09-23-2008, 04:56 PM
Marantz as well. A true go-to receiver brand where you don't have to worry about the sound or build quality.

Carl

mdelzer
09-23-2008, 04:57 PM
From a control standpoint my vote is Integra. As for sound quality it doesn't come up too often as an issue nor do we very often install a set of speakers where you'd be able to really tell the difference anyway. Most customers trust us as installers to point them in the right direction. If it's not easy to use I don't care how good it sounds they are gonna have beef and not use it as much or at all. :wink:

Mark

I should mention that the last 2 companies I have worked for have both switched to Integra from Marantz for various reasons. At DSI the main problem we were having with Marantz was HDMI related, back when it was 7001 and not 7002. We could not get them to pass 1080P and the Integra would. Plus I LOVE the fact that an input selection command will actually TURN ON the Integra units.

Mark

vwpower44
09-23-2008, 05:48 PM
We are switching to Integra currently, and will use Denon to fill the gap. The quality of Denon has really gone down in recent years.

QQQ
09-23-2008, 06:10 PM
For the record, Denon now offers this as well.

I think it's a nice feature to eliminate some programming time, I can see some simpler systems where you can bypass macros altogether with this.
I don't see it as a matter of bypassing programming time per se, even though that may be a (VERY) slight result. Ever since Lexicon designed all their processors to turn on from an input selection (well past 10+ years now), I've felt it should be a standard on all electronic components, even TV's. It's more reliable (especially if someone is using IR as opposed to RS232) since it doesn't require a turn on, then a delay, then an input switch and most of all it's faster since when you enter delays you always have to make them a little longer than necessary so the next command does not misfire.

mdelzer
09-23-2008, 06:16 PM
I don't see it as a matter of bypassing programming time per se, even though that may be a (VERY) slight result. Ever since Lexicon designed all their processors to turn on from an input selection (well past 10+ years now), I've felt it should be a standard on all electronic components, even TV's. It's more reliable (especially if someone is using IR as opposed to RS232) since it doesn't require a turn on, then a delay, then an input switch and most of all it's faster since when you enter delays you always have to make them a little longer than necessary so the next command does not misfire.

One feature that Runco had right on "some" of their TVs was you could "build" a string that had the power and input commands. Problem was keeping track of which tv/projectors you could do it with. Some of their stuff didn't like it. I'm looking forward to CEC as it becomes more mainstream since it is a standard and not just made up information that is poorly documented and only the janitor knows what the document should have said.

Mark

jritch
09-23-2008, 08:07 PM
anyone know which receiver (dual zone with hdmi upconvert)
will show volume osd when using an all hdmi set up?

I know that the Denon 3808CI does it...

crestrontech
09-23-2008, 08:54 PM
Been happy with Denon for years, $ climbing, like the 4308 up another $400 cost:(. I've ordered 3 of the Pioneer Elite $1000 - $2500 avr's to test, the specs look great. Anybody use the Parasound $3000 AVR? Looked at Interga but goofy rep company claims it takes 2 months to get approved ??

cory
09-23-2008, 09:18 PM
We've been doing Denon since we started 4 years ago. I have a lot xp with Onkyo and HK as well. I really don't like HK.

I've had some xp with Marantz and don't have anything bad to say about the line.

We have never had a problem with a single Denon Product, they do what they say they will and always are on the cutting edge of new technologies backed by a 2 year warranty.

AVR3808 is my bread & butter. I like to pair it up with a Parasound 5250 or 5125, plus Audyssey Pro calibration. I have worked with the the 58xx Series as well and am very impressed by the overall AV performance. They do a very good job with video for the price points IMO.

aforlano
09-23-2008, 11:06 PM
Marantz. Period.

I swear by it, and have for the last 4 years. Cut me open and you'll see Marantz gold and maroon running through my veins.

Ultra-reliable, great sound quality, easy to control, etc. etc. etc.

Who cares what the OSD looks like. You use it once or twice, then never touch it again. The simple fact is it's easy to navigate and it's not encumbered with useless items to mess up.

Fred

jimstolz76
09-24-2008, 06:00 AM
Marantz. Period.

I swear by it, and have for the last 4 years. Cut me open and you'll see Marantz gold and maroon running through my veins.

Ultra-reliable, great sound quality, easy to control, etc. etc. etc.

Who cares what the OSD looks like. You use it once or twice, then never touch it again. The simple fact is it's easy to navigate and it's not encumbered with useless items to mess up.

Fred

AMEN!

We switched from HK when literally 1 out of every 3 AVRs had to be replaced due to them turning themselves off. (not heat related - same thing happened with one that sat on a floor with nothing around it for 3 months - yes the customer used it this way)

My only gripe with Marantz when compared to Denon is that Marantz is less feature-packed than Denon is. To me they seem a year behind Denon in the feature set. However, the Marantz isn't whored out quite as badly as Denon. We don't like that you can go to BB or CC and buy Denon, even if it is just the low end models. I also found the $7,000 Denon AVR at Costco's website last year for around $4K. That sucks.

sirroundsound
09-24-2008, 08:08 AM
Used Marantz for many years, distribution changed up here, started to find it available in a lot of discount retail shops.
Also like Integra.
Have used Cambridge Audio for awhile, nice price points, good sound and control (once you change the codes from RC5, if your using RTI) plus Rs232 for projects that you can use them in. Not found everywhere so good margins. Only quirky issues, their receivers do not up convert as well as others, and you have to have a separate digital audio if using HDMI, as it just passes through HDMI signals, which isn't really a bad thing.
For higher end, B&K receivers and pre amps are great.

2ndRick
09-24-2008, 07:33 PM
I don't see it as a matter of bypassing programming time per se, even though that may be a (VERY) slight result. Ever since Lexicon designed all their processors to turn on from an input selection (well past 10+ years now)I have also been selling/installing Lexicon since the CP-1.

When I meant time saving on programming, I was thinking more for the bread-and-butter Denon sales, not necessarily those advanced projects where you are constructing tons of macros anyway.

Think about the company who regularly throws a $700-1200 receiver in a master bedroom or a family room system with a $150-250 IR-only remote...

Instead of building a macro, let the receiver's input turn the unit on, and let the Personal Memory Plus function automatically assign the correct sound mode, video switching, etc. to that source input (all pre-determined in the AVR setup).

Bottom line is just like Lexicon... One command can get it to work like you want it to...

cory
09-24-2008, 08:58 PM
AMEN!

I also found the $7,000 Denon AVR at Costco's website last year for around $4K. That sucks.

I know that Denon is very good about tracking their serial #'s and will not honor any warranty if not purchased from an authorized seller, and Costco isn't one.

They have the Serial #'s digitally stamped to the board that can never be erased, and on lower-end models they use hidden ink that can be seen under a black light and stamp it somewhere like under the front left foot.

I like that they go this far to help protect the line, even as popular as it is. I was unhappy when they release the 3 Digit line to CC. BB only has access b/c Magnolia did.

Also, the fact that every model from the 23xx and up is hand built and tested helps provide quality and reliability.

I'm pretty sure Denon and Marantz are owned by the same parent company (or whatever you'd call it)

ATOH
09-24-2008, 09:22 PM
D&M Holdings, which I think was purchased recently, right?

Marantz here, because of control first of course, but definitely because of audio quality second. Integra has all the control but Marantz definitely sounds great. I'm surprised about someone switching because of HDMI. Why change brands because it doesn't work well for something new? We sell stable, controlled evironment, always works systems right? We're the "geek" for our clients instead of them needing to think about or do any research or needing to know how it all connects? Selling a "solution" not a product or a box? Maybe I have the wrong philosophy about how I approach my work... :D

Top brands over and over and over and over and over and over and over and ... well, you get the idea... here:

Integra
Marantz
Denon
Yamaha

In no particular order.

It's kind of like displays. I think we as a majority choose based on control and then product quality. At one point the display list probably would have gone something like:

Fujitsu
Pioneer
LG
Samsung

With stragglers like Toshiba and 1 or 2 others squeezing in occasionally.

I honestly tell ALL of my clients that I don't want them to think when they want to use their systems. I just want it to work, consistently, when they choose their activity. They shouldn't have to think to make it work, it just should. No 2 pages of notes. No user manual. Too many options gets too confusing for the normal user. The approach for products shouldn't be about features, it should be about the system working, all the time every time.

Along with the "think with the client's wallet" should be another anecdote to remember. "Think with the client's brain". You might be geek enough to care that HDMI works, 1080p, and all the other BS jargon, but as long as it works and you sell quality product your work will look better than the AVSer down the street with the 1080p, the upscaling DVD player, blah blah blah. Who cares about technical specs or features besides AVSers and us, the geeks our clients put their trust in?

I'm not typically arrogant, but I can guarantee that my clients that have 720p plasmas in their houses looks better than the DIY buddy down the street that has the newest, greatest 4400p TV that he got from Sam's Club or BB and set up himself.

Sorry for the rant! :p Maybe I shouldn't have had a glass or 2 of wine first before getting on IP. Maybe I should start my own "F the features, sell stability" thread?

OEX
09-24-2008, 10:46 PM
im also looking for volume osd on screen while using strictly HDMI in and out . .
any opinions on this?

I cant believe no one uses Yamaha. I have had zero issues with their gear.
They have gotten a little silly with their tuners at times but we will live.

all of their pieces overlay volume with hdmi.

the new z7 will do it with a 720/1080 source

K&J
09-25-2008, 04:51 AM
so far it seems to be

marantz
denon
integra


anyone know which receiver (dual zone with hdmi upconvert)
will show volume osd when using an all hdmi set up?

Marantz does this..

We have been using Marantz for the the past 3-4 years. Prior to that we were using Boston Acoustics.

We have only had 1 bad receiver for Marantz in this time period and that was just a week ago with a 5003. There is another thread covering that subject.
Best of Luck.

jberger
09-25-2008, 07:21 AM
We used Yamaha until last year. I swear once they moved the rxv line into Best Buy they started cost cutting the line to keep margins. None of the "new" models sounded as good as the previous versions and the amps just did not have the punch of the previous generation.

Moved to Marantz and have been very pleased with the 700x/800x series. Looking forward to hearing the new 5003 to see if the they are more similar to the 7/8 series after this refresh. They have certainly cleaned up the appearance of the 400x/500x with this model change.

jimstolz76
09-25-2008, 07:37 AM
I'm not typically arrogant, but I can guarantee that my clients that have 720p plasmas in their houses looks better than the DIY buddy down the street that has the newest, greatest 4400p TV that he got from Sam's Club or BB and set up himself.
The theater in our office has a 720p projector with a standard DVD player and everyone thinks it's HD. :) (Marantz VP8600 and DV9600)

I agree with you 100%

gotp
10-27-2008, 02:16 AM
:rolleyes: Got tired of Marantz pricing on line so i switched to integra, I like em both, both are all discrete IR'S even in z2 and rs232. and booth are on screen control in HDMI and component. as long as i have Discrete Ir, it doesn't matter....

flcusat
10-27-2008, 06:35 AM
The theater in our office has a 720p projector with a standard DVD player and everyone thinks it's HD. :) (Marantz VP8600 and DV9600)



Except when the Marantz splash from the DVD shows.;)

bwestlake
09-01-2015, 08:09 PM
im for onkyo, love the pricepoint and the feature set . .
706 and above ofcourse . . 232 etc . .

i know most installers prefer integra . .
but id rather sell a higher line onkyo for the same price . .

As I recall. Onkyo has a 1 year warranty and Integra has 3 years. Plus some of the Integra models aren't "shopped" as easily as Integra.

smcnally
09-01-2015, 08:19 PM
LOL! You just replied to a 7 year old post.