URC vs. RTI

[Darren]

Story goes like this. We used to use URC for our controllers a few years ago... then dropped them due to continuing issues involving RF/EMF interference. So we picked up the RTI line. No complaints from RTI, works
everytime... however it is a bit pricey for smaller systems. For an cheaper alternative we tried URC again about two years ago. Lo and behold, we discovered similar issues with RF communication (or lack there of).. so we dropped them again.
Now I hear from a couple dealers that URC has resolved these issues and we should give them another try (third times a charm right).
So whats the story? Are you guys noticing issues with your URC integrations? Is it a rock solid system, or should I just stick with RTI?

[ds53652]

URC is now rock solid in regards to RF transmission. Their new Narrow Band system has been awesome for us. Everytime I stretch its limits distance wise, I'm continually amazed....

[ssmiller]

Same here...no problems with the narrow RF stuff.

[MrDigitronic]

URC new narrow band RF is just so much better then the old format. Just never have any problems anymore. Antenna location is still key though. We pretty much use their MX-900 for every remote control application.

[CCD]

We have never had any RF problems with URC that I could not fix by moving the base or something.

[cdouglass]

Hey all,

I use both companies and yes URC has improved the RF a 1000 fold.

This is my first post here and you may know me over on RC under the same tag.

I own and operate an integration company in Hilton Head, SC. We also provide computer services.

Looking forward to getting on the verified side and letting loose.


Clinton Douglass

[flcusat]

We have never had any RF problems with URC that I could not fix by moving the base or something.

That's because the cows don't generate any sort of RF signals.:p

[flyingmachine]

This past week, I had my latest T3 go blank on my 82 year old clients. I tried walking them through getting the back battery cover off to toggle on/off switch and they couldn't get it off. I told them if they couldn't get it off, I'll come by the next morning, but I didn't like the 5 min service call that was an hour out the way to my real job fir that day. Toggles on/off and it came back. This now my 7th T3 out in field and all 7 have either been replaced or this type of problem.

I also had a 930pm call on Thursday for a dead T2C. Luckily they didn't have frail fingers and were able to toggle the on/off switch and bring it back to life. Pretty much all T2C have had an issue like this.

I've been doing URC 900s and 980s recently.

[jimstolz76]

This past week, I had my latest T3 go blank on my 82 year old clients. I tried walking them through getting the back battery cover off to toggle on/off switch and they couldn't get it off. I told them if they couldn't get it off, I'll come by the next morning, but I didn't like the 5 min service call that was an hour out the way to my real job fir that day. Toggles on/off and it came back. This now my 7th T3 out in field and all 7 have either been replaced or this type of problem.

I also had a 930pm call on Thursday for a dead T2C. Luckily they didn't have frail fingers and were able to toggle the on/off switch and bring it back to life. Pretty much all T2C have had an issue like this.

I've been doing URC 900s and 980s recently.

Has anyone figured out why they do that yet? Ours are doing that as well.

[cdouglass]

Recently a T2C has went blank at a clients. I sent my tech to reboot it, but still it was frozen up. He told me that he toggled the power a few times but to no avail.

I went out there left it off for a few minutes and it has worked since. Perhaps this is happening when the battery is drained. I remember when we sold Harmony remotes that it had the same issue when it lost its charge.

[jimstolz76]

Recently a T2C has went blank at a clients. I sent my tech to reboot it, but still it was frozen up. He told me that he toggled the power a few times but to no avail.

I went out there left it off for a few minutes and it has worked since. Perhaps this is happening when the battery is drained. I remember when we sold Harmony remotes that it had the same issue when it lost its charge.


hmm. It could be a battery saver feature. Our security systems shut down when the backup battery drops to around 9 volts so that the battery won't do a deep discharge and become unable to recharge properly.

Sounds like it could be that. maybe?

[CCD]

That's because the cows don't generate any sort of RF signals.:p


http://www.agcensus.usda.gov/Publications/2002/County_Profiles/Florida/cp12039.PDF

http://www.agcensus.usda.gov/Publications/2002/County_Profiles/Florida/cp12025.PDF

You should not have any trouble in Dade county since your county produces over 4 times the livestock of Gadsden county. :-)

Pedro I think your bluetooth is causing all your interference :-)

[flcusat]

http://www.agcensus.usda.gov/Publications/2002/County_Profiles/Florida/cp12039.PDF

http://www.agcensus.usda.gov/Publications/2002/County_Profiles/Florida/cp12025.PDF

You should not have any trouble in Dade county since your county produces over 4 times the livestock of Gadsden county. :-)

Pedro I think your bluetooth is causing all your interference :-)

You know a few years ago I transitioned from URC to RTI because al the RF issues I was having with them(URC). After a few years using RTI an being very comfortable with them I've been experience a lot of trouble lately with the T2-c. I like the T3 but I feel better about a remote with more hard buttons like the T2-c over the T3. I've being lately thinking on giving URC another try. Has anybody here tried an AMX/URC combination?

[joeyces]

It is sort of weird how in the past 6-8 months, I have seen more RTI remote batteries die or not hold a charge.

Are these normal battery lifetimes? I hope not.

I have been ordering new batteries & keeping them in stock now because of this.

Each remote that had its battery swapped out, seems to work just fine.

I have also noticed two systems that during service calls, there seemed to be poor reception with the processors, and new batteries also helped on these remotes (T2-C & T3).

Got myself a MSC-400/MX-950 to tinker with this weekend, after hearing how much better the URC reliablility has become, it has me looking to their lineup again.

[CCD]

One important thing I took away from the CEDIA trainings was that the new MX-6000 uses RF/IR for all control function and IP for all the bling bling. There are many cool possibilities that Darnitol teased me with. What we really get may be a totally different thing. Maybe some of us here can "beta test" a web browser or some other cool "unnoficial" app for them. I would totally agree on not making this an "official" feature until it is bulletproof but there is no reason why savvy CIs could not enjoy some of these applications. I would love to post to IP from my MX-6000. I certainly do not want service calls because gramps cannot see pornhub.com on his remote any more or he cannot get to the site where he checks his stocks.

[Darren]

Well, sounds like URC has made some efforts. I am meeting with the URC rep on Tuesday for some updated training... we'll see if I take the leap of faith.

How come we do not have a RTI manufacturer thread? No reps lurking here?

I would like to know for sure they are aware of all the recent issues we all have been having.
I posted a week or so ago about the RP-1 having defective transformers... lo and behold we had another one a few days ago. Then I was having a T2C freeze up on a button push that included both a RF macro and direct IR command in Stand Alone Mode.

Yesterday a client calls says his TV is not responding to commands... say he noticed the IR emitter is no longer flashing. I arrive and all is working fine. I did notice the T2C Charging Station was flashing the blue light... when the T2C was not even sitting in the Docking Station. Went back a few minutes later to put the T2C in the Dock and the flashing had stopped. Weird.

[roddymcg]

Most have probably seen my recent rants on RTI's recent QA consistency. But I just do not like the URC programming environment. Which I did not like when I first programmed a B&k system some 6 years ago to updating a MX 850 about a month ago.

[Glackowitz]

How come we do not have a RTI manufacturer thread? No reps lurking here?



My Understanding id they arent allowed to post in forums, that what the tech support is for

I have Brand new MX900 and MRF350 still in the shipping box with the packing slip still on it, has been sitting in the garage for about a month now...Im afraid to program it..Had way to many issues with RF in the past and afraid of more issues. Maybe I can sell it to a neighbor or craigslist it locally...Or maybe order i a few light switches and play around a smidge with it...Dang...why was URC so crappy a few years ago...My RF issues still haunt me when a client with one calls, Im afaird they will say their remote quit working again and I am out of tin foil and places to move antennas too

[Pilgrim]

Glack,

Hook up the 350,program the 900, and check it out.

URC has really stepped up to the plate with their new narrow band products.

You'll be impressed.

I just installed 8 DTV H21's,1 I-MAC,amps,mrf-260,mrf 350,and a receiver in a tight closet with the 400 amp breaker panel,alarm panel,and phone/internet panel at a new pub.

The closet is about 6'X3'.

It's rock solid with the antenna located in the closet with a range of about 85'-100ft.

I hope I'm not jinxing myself!

That's my "worst case scenario".

Issues in the home have been non-existent.

[Darren]

My Understanding id they arent allowed to post in forums, that what the tech support is for

I have Brand new MX900 and MRF350 still in the shipping box with the packing slip still on it, has been sitting in the garage for about a month now...Im afraid to program it..Had way to many issues with RF in the past and afraid of more issues. Maybe I can sell it to a neighbor or craigslist it locally...Or maybe order i a few light switches and play around a smidge with it...Dang...why was URC so crappy a few years ago...My RF issues still haunt me when a client with one calls, Im afaird they will say their remote quit working again and I am out of tin foil and places to move antennas too


I feel your pain brother!

[Pilgrim]

I feel your pain brother!

We ALL did :(

[TedW]

It really seems that RTI is just in flat out denial over the reliability issues. This is long past the point of being a minor nuisance. That being said I much prefer the programming environment and product depth of RTI over URC. With all the RF problems URC had RTI could have owned the market. Instead all of us are taking a look at URC again even if we don't make the full transition back to URC. I know URC finally fixed the RF problems but I still see RTI as the far better product line. But it doesn't matter how good the line is if it doesn't work reliably.

My rep is no longer responding to my emails either....

[ZohaJones]

We've been selling RTI for a few years. I've never had any problems with the RF side, and ny complaints I've heard about RF problems with RTI were due to a lack of understanding by the programmer (the RP1 and RP6 don't have queueing, so if you send the next command before a previous one has finished, it gets lost and appears to be an RF issue). I had always heaard that URC had RF issues, so I have always looked at that product line but have never tried it.

I have had a lot of reliability issues with RTI, though, and I don't see any of them mentioned here:
- T2+ LCD failures, where the screen would skew. One job had three T2+'s and I went through 7 units to get three that worked.
- U1 failures - RF transmitter problem, and mechanical problems with the case that prevented some of the screws with o-rings from securing properly. One one job, 2 remotes were required. I went through 5 to get two that worked.

And then I have had some battery failures after about a year, but I chalked that down as normal for a rechargeable battery.

Has anyone else had quality issues with RTI other than batteries?

Phil

[roddymcg]

We've been selling RTI for a few years. I've never had any problems with the RF side, and ny complaints I've heard about RF problems with RTI were due to a lack of understanding by the programmer (the RP1 and RP6 don't have queueing, so if you send the next command before a previous one has finished, it gets lost and appears to be an RF issue). I had always heaard that URC had RF issues, so I have always looked at that product line but have never tried it.

I have had a lot of reliability issues with RTI, though, and I don't see any of them mentioned here:
- T2+ LCD failures, where the screen would skew. One job had three T2+'s and I went through 7 units to get three that worked.
- U1 failures - RF transmitter problem, and mechanical problems with the case that prevented some of the screws with o-rings from securing properly. One one job, 2 remotes were required. I went through 5 to get two that worked.

And then I have had some battery failures after about a year, but I chalked that down as normal for a rechargeable battery.

Has anyone else had quality issues with RTI other than batteries?

Phil

We have sent back at least a dozen T3's in the last year, I have ranted and raved about this both here and at RC. I have been really lucky with the T2c, T2+, and the T1. We had a couple RM433's go bad, but the processors have been very stable.

I just had another bad CM232 on Friday, those are a pain in the ass to figure out. My tech was looking at me odd as I was running a new one up the front of the cabinet to an Elite plasma thinking WTF is going on here. Worked fine... Why does that shit have to happen on a Friday when you want to go home early, why?? :mad:

[ZohaJones]

I haven't had an CM-232 or processor failures. Always the remotes. And yeah, most times I've gotten a call about an LCD failure, it was on a weekend. It's a conspiracy.

If you ever have any RS-232 debug problems in the shop, try this out. Pretty useful gadget when you want to see what's happening on a link. Not that you want to whip it out on site though!!
http://www.stratusengineering.com/EZTap.html?gclid=CPrQ0cDwkJYCFST7iAodySyrEw

[Matt]

I haven't had an CM-232 or processor failures. Always the remotes. And yeah, most times I've gotten a call about an LCD failure, it was on a weekend. It's a conspiracy.

If you ever have any RS-232 debug problems in the shop, try this out. Pretty useful gadget when you want to see what's happening on a link. Not that you want to whip it out on site though!!
http://www.stratusengineering.com/EZTap.html?gclid=CPrQ0cDwkJYCFST7iAodySyrEw

Cool tool.

[def90]

Are people really having problems with RTI now? I thought I read on here that they claimed that they had a bad run of T2C remotes that would freeze up? Have these problems gone away or are people still experiencing them? I was going to interface 6 RTI T2c remotes with AMX coming up but am wondering if I should use URC. This will be an out of town job so the on the way home service call won't work. The only problem I see with URC is that I have had 2 of the 5 people I have used URC for think the screens are touch screens at first and try to run them by touching the screen instead of the buttons on the side.


How did this thread end up in the public side anyway?

[Matt]

With the recent price drop on the R4's why would you still use the T2C? It's still more, but not that much more.

[def90]

With the recent price drop on the R4's why would you still use the T2C? It's still more, but not that much more.

I don't really need 2 way in the instance that the remotes will be used for and I was thinking RF via RTI or URC would theoretically be more reliable than ZigBee. I am using AMX so I can remote into the processor and will have one central TP for overall control of Security, lights, weather and access to their AMX system in a second residence.

Now if you could load an R4 remotely that would make a difference.

[Matt]

I would typically agree with the RF vs. zigbee except that you have 6 T2c's.
I am guessing that you are going to use RTI processors to talk to the AMX processor or you are using multiple AMX processors to accommodate the additional RF gateways. If you are using RTI processors, then that is 6 potential conflicting devices in the RF bubble. Using AMX gateways jacks the price up over RTI. To me, I would rather deal with the zigbee than have 6 remotes fighting for RTI airspace that could easily end up with dropped commands.

I don't honestly know which option is more stable, it is just my personal opinion when dealing with the RTI processor capabilities.

[Matt]

I just realized that I forgot about the XP8 with multitasking. I stopped using RTI before it came out and it is not that prominent on my radar.

[def90]

It is just an empty nester couple so I don't ever see anymore than 2 remotes ever used at a time. I was going to use 232 from RTI to trigger AMX events. It's a small condo so I was also hoping to be able to cover the whole place with maybe 2 antennas. These people currently have 3 MVP-7500's and have been running strong since upgrading the wifi with enterprise grade AP's but they think they want something to hold in 1 hand and they would like more hard buttons in their new place.

I currently have a Pronto 9400 at home runing my NI-2000 and get 2 way info but on occasion takes a little longer connecting to the network on wakeup than I would like, also battery life off the charging base is not the greatest with it trying to keep the wifi connection up. Works pretty good for me but would not offer it to a client yet.

[def90]

With the recent price drop on the R4's why would you still use the T2C? It's still more, but not that much more.

Just looked at the pricing which I have not looked at since the updated list came out.. It is a huge drop.. maybe the R4 does make sense. The ZigBee and wake up response still scares me though..

[Darren]

Well, last week I met with the URC Rep at the KC IntelliFest and sat through a training class. I was impressed by the new MX-6000 and the newer narrow-band RF processors. The MX-6000 2-Way feature is very nice in addition to their iPod Dock.
I am updating my personal theater and will most likely give my old Pronto the boot and in place use the new MX-6000, iPod dock and try out the new Lutron URC Dimmers.
If they work as promised we will probably start using the URC line up again... but I am still very apprehensive.

[wildulmer]

DEF90,

You do not need to use an RTI antenna. Use an AMX 433 antenna and Use the RTI AMX trigger codes. Saves quite a bit of RTI 232 programming. I think they have about 255 RF Triggers. If you have any questions look on the RTI website for a Tech note.