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sirroundsound
03-20-2006, 10:08 AM
Have been called in to assess an Elan Z series system with the 250 style keypads. It's been a long time since I have worked with Elan, I hope they have made some changes from the first Z series systems.
On the Keypads, do they need to be programmed at each one?
Very little of this system works, my thoughts are that it just never got finished, and client/integration co got into a disagreement. Connections at the equipment look to be OK. I really think the 2 main issues the client has are unfinished programming, and overall sound quality. He is an audiophile, there is at least 200k worth of a system sitting in a theatre room. All bought from the same retailler that sold him the Elan system. This is the part 2, why would anybody sell a client, that over the years has purchased cost no object equipment from you, an Elan system with basic B&W in ceiling speakers? Your just asking for trouble.
Also, would anybody here sell an Escient with this type of multi room music system, no video distro, no touch screens.?

Is there a way to get into Elan's web site to get owners manuals? THere isn't any documentation with this system either.

THanks
Pat

sirroundsound
03-20-2006, 10:19 AM
I have added a couple of pictures to my blog site.

http://spaces.msn.com/members/sirroundsound

vette84
03-20-2006, 10:51 AM
All of Elan's interfaces are programmed with VIAtools software, no programming at the device.

I'll PM you with the info for Elan's dealer site, you can download manuals and software there.

Keep in mind that VIAtools takes some getting used to, but overall is fairly easy.

A media server with no touchpanels is doable, but definately not clean and easy. I wouldn't want to do it without at least one touchpanel or video interface of some kind. Elan does have Escient video overlay templates for their VIA panels, though, so it's kinda plug and play when you do have a touchpanel.

AHEM
03-20-2006, 11:28 AM
Pat, I've got a Z-series programming interface that I almost never use that you're welcome to borrow if it would help you out any.

avophile
03-20-2006, 12:51 PM
Then there's always the easy and convenient option of modulating the video output of the Escient to a tv channel on the CATV distribution. They just point the remote at the keypad and watch the cursor move around the GUI displayed on the modulated channel.

ATOH
03-20-2006, 01:39 PM
Those pics are nice! Where do some of these people come from? I really like the section of drywall cut out above the trim. That looks really nice.

What are the 3 volume controls in the wall for like that? Do I really want to know??????

I like the wall plate with all the outlets and each piece of hardware plugged in to the outlet individually. Looks good.

This reminds me. I need to start taking my camera to fix-ups.

sirroundsound
03-20-2006, 06:43 PM
THanks for the help.
As for the pic's, nice work like that gets done on both sides of the border.
The wall plate was located in such a nice place, and the speaker connections came in handy, they used them for his surround system . As for the VC's next to it, they are for the Kitchen, bar and Master bath. These three areas have keypads, but are also the control for an area of the house with other rooms that only have volume controls. So if I want music in the living room, I have to go to the Kitchen and turn the system on first, plus the music will be playing there too.
This was done by a very well known "retail" based company. The client has a wall of gear in the basement that would make any audiophile start to drool, Dcs Vertas Cd transport, Linn, VTL, Wilsons and even stuff I didn't recognise.
All of this bought over the years from the same retailler that did this to him, in his new house.
They told him to just make a couple of Group files in the Escient, this way he wouldn't need to modulate a signal or use touch screens. He also has an XM radio that doesn't work, it only says antenna in the display. It sure seems like if these items were spec'ed right from the start, I would have pushed the touch screen issue or looked at a completely different set up.
The other big problem, based on all the ultra high end gear in the basement, this client was expecting a "music" system, not a background music system.
I know the Elan system isn't bad, but it's still not meant for the audiophile market.

PAAI
03-20-2006, 08:37 PM
The other big problem, based on all the ultra high end gear in the basement, this client was expecting a "music" system, not a background music system.
I know the Elan system isn't bad, but it's still not meant for the audiophile market.
But what in-ceiling or in-wall system really is when you are moving around and listening? Ask some very detailed questions and have a tape recorder with you to get some answers from this guy. Something also tells me this system may not be paid for, just a hunch.
Adding some ceiling subwoofers and/or additional external equalizers maybe an easy fix for you I hope, but how could that have been overlooked in the initial sale? You may also add some Conrad Johnson Amplifiers to keep the house warm all year long!

After looking at the pictures, you can tell some people at the original company were not exactly full time installers. Looks like they sent the sales team to try and finish the job. Do they even know what a Equipment rack is?
They blew out the wall, cause the PZ6 didn't fit their needs or they broke it while punching down connections. The Wall plates are not easy to deal with when you have subzones, that is what all the VSE volume controls on the wall are ATOH.

Since he has always bought from this other dealer and you are not an Elan dealer, ask yourself if you really want any part of this. What will you get out of it? money? I know, but there are other paying customers who you can create a start to finish job with.

Tough decision from my stand point. Ask the right questions and have your ears completely tuned in for answers and hope he is not bipolar!

sirroundsound
03-20-2006, 10:04 PM
I know the system isn't completely paid for, thats why I'm supposed to be here. To do an assessment of what was installed, and what actually works. And an opinion of the system and how it was installed.
He has a court case against the retailler.
We have fixed broken systems before and know how to be very careful with clients like this, and get paid first.
That will likely be the next stage, he may not end up using us to fix this one. We are too much money for what he wants done. He wants it to be working, has the house up for sale. I was double what he was expecting to pay for the assessment.

PAAI
03-21-2006, 07:56 AM
You could always take the Wilson's in on partial trade :)

Don't you want to say "you get what you pay for in services", but you can't and be glad they are not telepathic.

Leave your card and references with the Real Estate Agent, she probably will be of help with the new home owners.

PHSJason
03-21-2006, 08:49 AM
Couple of things. You still have to have the ViaLearner to download the program into the keypads. You can get one keypad done, and then copy that one to all the others(since the Z630 uses the same IR commands for all inputs, the difference is which IR input it is plugged into). You still have to go and plug into each one to download the file into it. The ELan Z-pads still do NOT support serial control meaning that the entire system wil have to hooked up IR. Also, the Zpads do not support conditional programing like adding voltage sensors for warm-up delays in macros. The Z-630(2) does have seperate Bass, Treble, and and "enhance"(loud) filter for each zone. You can set these from the keypads or from the remote that came with the Z-630 pointed at each keypad. This may help the audio a bit in the short term.

sirroundsound
03-21-2006, 07:18 PM
If he ends up asking me to get things working for him, I have a friend at a retail store that does Elan. So I would contract the programming out to them.
He has already told me, due to selling the house he really won't spend a lot to get things working, just fix it as cheaply as we can and let the next owner worry about it.

sirroundsound
03-29-2006, 09:40 AM
In case anyone is looking at my blog site, I have removed the pictures of the Elan mess, I have other people looking there and don't want them to be confused and think that was my work.
I have posted a few more pictures of the award winning theatre we did .