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View Full Version : 2 zone systems: separate amp or 7.1 receiver?



tomciara
06-10-2006, 12:45 AM
Just curious if you who use 2 zone systems with Integra, Denon, Yamaha, etc receivers...do you use the last 2 channels of the 7.1 to drive zone 2 or do you use an outboard amp?

My experience is that the outboard amp with it's own power supply can do better than a 5.1 receiver trying to push a couple pair of outdoor speakers besides. One isolated incident of a receiver shutting down. Nonetheless, I use the 7.1 the majority of the time and just have 5.1 in the main room and 2 ch for zone 2.

roddymcg
06-10-2006, 03:21 AM
Second amp all the way, Sonance, Speakercraft, or what ever is your liking.

smcnally
06-10-2006, 06:35 AM
I personally hate 2 zone recievers. Don't get me wrong, it's a nice feature, but very few of them are easy to operate to a client. IMO, it is easier just to get them a seperate stereo reciever for the second zone and "Y" off any shared sources.

CCD
06-10-2006, 09:00 AM
I personally hate 2 zone recievers. Don't get me wrong, it's a nice feature, but very few of them are easy to operate to a client. IMO, it is easier just to get them a seperate stereo reciever for the second zone and "Y" off any shared sources.
Do you sell your clients the proper remote? What is hard about pushing Porch>Radio>Volume on an MX-850 OR A T2+.
I love Zone 2 on these rcvrs. Integra takes a little getting used to if you use the OEM remote and the Yamaha, forget it the OEM remote is impossible to operate. Discrete Zone 2 commands are priceless!

OEX
06-10-2006, 09:51 AM
I guess I'm wierd. I use zone 2 all the time. If its a small porch or a pair in the master bedroom, I let the reciever power it. If its somewhere when theyre going to drive it hard then an amp. I sell some type of in wall control like a Sonance k2. My customers love the setup. Using a remote sometimes doesn't seem to go over well with the clients.

I just did a job where a small deck got powered zone 2 with a k2 and zone 3 went with an audio control model 100 amp and a k2 for pool speakers. Works very well. We have a second cable box for comercial free music genres. Ended up using the k2 to control the add on window shades too.

roddymcg
06-10-2006, 02:26 PM
I use zone 2 all the time. Yamaha's and Denon's are really easy to control Throw a T1/RP1 in the mix and you have a simple easy system.

Kelly
06-10-2006, 05:21 PM
I've used the Room2 function on a couple of systems and it's worked out well.

Using a up scale A/V receiver with a four source muilti-zone system can allow for more sources in a budget system.

metrognomicon
06-10-2006, 06:01 PM
We do lots of zone 2 systems with the Yamaha receivers....works well if you program the remote right. Got to make sure you aren't using the master system power commands.

Outboard amps are the only way to go. Zone 2 can be a bunch of rooms with volume controls.

CCD
06-10-2006, 06:10 PM
We do lots of zone 2 systems with the Yamaha receivers....works well if you program the remote right. Got to make sure you aren't using the master system power commands.

Outboard amps are the only way to go. Zone 2 can be a bunch of rooms with volume controls.
Surely you do not mean the Yamaha remote works well? I assume you mean an RTI URC or something along those lines.

roddymcg
06-10-2006, 06:34 PM
Surely you do not mean the Yamaha remote works well? I assume you mean an RTI URC or something along those lines.

Never use an OEM remote, sorry for the confusion. What I have done lately and works good when not using any typ of mutiroom system is use a couple of RTI remotes. A T2+ ot T3 if you will with thte capability to control zone 2 powered by an external amp. Then I like to use a T1 to control the 2nd zone only.

I had a Mr. Stanley type of day yesterday and drank way too much to compensate for things. My thought process is lacking severly today. Plus going on 3 straight weeks of working, no days off.

Ouch

CCD
06-10-2006, 09:26 PM
My post was in response to metrognomicon. The Yamaha remote is single worst remote ever created! The Integra is manageable for tech savvy customers.
Mr Stanley does seem to have a lot of F'ed up days doesn't he?
I have had a few weeks like that back in the spring but things seem to be slowing down now. I can give my builders a little more love now :)

roddymcg
06-10-2006, 09:39 PM
My post was in response to metrognomicon. The Yamaha remote is single worst remote ever created! The Integra is manageable for tech savvy customers.
Mr Stanley does seem to have a lot of F'ed up days doesn't he?
I have had a few weeks like that back in the spring but things seem to be slowing down now. I can give my builders a little more love now :)

Ah ha, gotcha... I have to agree about the remote. I just did a Denon 3806 on Thursday and am no more of a fan of that remote either. Had problems with Zone 2 as well. Used zone 3 instead and things were perfect. Its all transparent to the client, so I'll run with things.

We have a Sim2 Ht300e giving us a bit of a headache. Got it going fine the other day. High profile client, on the board with Mr. Gates, is having a 200+ person party and the freakin projector starts acting up again. Its the end of the day and I am about 40 miles (LA traffic) away when I get the call. So glad I was able to walk the client through getting things back up and runnig.

This after a client spends a half hour lecturing me on the fact that the tape he told us to use to protect the edge of the cabinets pulled off the finish. He is board and pulls the tape off himself. Apparently this a $25k finish, so he says. We meet on Monday morning to go over this. Our tech pushed too hard on the tape, so he says. This should be a great way to start the week. At least I go on vacation the week after next.

Sorry for the digression, had to rant. I feel like I am getting a hole in my stomach.

Pilgrim
06-10-2006, 11:07 PM
I use Integra's 'powered zone 2' on a regular basis with no problems.

I would never consider using the remote it came with!

If your going to be running the second zone 'hard' (outside, no neighbors) then an amp would be a good upgrade.

CCD
06-10-2006, 11:22 PM
I use Integra's 'powered zone 2' on a regular basis with no problems.

I would never consider using the remote it came with!

If your going to be running the second zone 'hard' (outside, no neighbors) then an amp would be a good upgrade.
The Denon and Yamaha remote are so scewed up I cannot even run Z2 with them. I have a couple of cheap customers that have used the Integra "temporarily" until they got sick of it and bought an MX-850. Integra's 115w zone 2 amp is decent the Yamaha's must have an amp if you want anything other than "background music".

lowvoltguy
06-10-2006, 11:34 PM
I personally hate 2 zone recievers. Don't get me wrong, it's a nice feature, but very few of them are easy to operate to a client. IMO, it is easier just to get them a seperate stereo reciever for the second zone and "Y" off any shared sources.

1000% agree ... I've yet to see a 2 zone receiver that is user friendly ...

Pilgrim
06-10-2006, 11:48 PM
The .6 Integras' are almost operational with the supplied remote!

I did a Denon last week (he already had the reciever) and it was easy to sell him an 850! (after I programed one and showed it to him!)

Almost had him sold on a T-2+ with a RP-6 until he got tight on me!

People have strange priority's!

$50,000 on landscaping and they don't want to spend $1500 on a remote that they will use everyday for extended periods that will make there life good!

Go figure!

DDeca
06-11-2006, 07:51 AM
We use the Integra powered Zone2 in certain situaltions with an MX-350 dedicated for the zone2. It is a very easy upsell for a 5.1 system in the main room. Just add a pair of speakers and a remote and thats it. If it gets to be more rooms than that then we go to an amplifier or multi-zone controller.

I also cant tell you how many times we have gone to older jobs done by someone else and the customers cant operate their zone2 at all. Some brands like HK, Pioneer, etc have really confusing zone2 controls.

OEX
06-11-2006, 08:33 AM
I have to disagree with zone 2 ease of use. With a keypad its as simple as it gets. With the original remote its a futile effort. Yamaha is now shipping a dedicated zone 2 remote. I havent used it but should ease the frustration level a bit.

CCD
06-11-2006, 09:11 AM
I have to disagree with zone 2 ease of use. With a keypad its as simple as it gets. With the original remote its a futile effort. Yamaha is now shipping a dedicated zone 2 remote. I havent used it but should ease the frustration level a bit.
What is the model number? Not that it matters as I would sell a real remote anyways.

OEX
06-11-2006, 11:20 AM
Both the RX-V1600 and RX-V2600

http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/receivers/RXV1600.htm

http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/receivers/RXV2600.htm

The beauty of these is that you can use them as a 3 zone stereo receiver if you have a job that needs that. I has tons of inputs. It will power all 3 zones and has an incredible amount of discrete ir codes. I have done it before with great results. One caveat, if you try to drive more than a single speaker per outlet, you'll need a seperate amp.

They also have 2 different codes sets so you could use 2 of them for a 6 zone setup.

roddymcg
06-11-2006, 11:37 AM
I have used the 2600 many times, snd zone remote is kinda cool. I thnk a client might actually be able to use that remote. I won't give them that chance, but none the less, I have been happy using the Yamaha.

metrognomicon
06-12-2006, 12:26 AM
Yeah, I meant with programmable remote, not the stock one. Although the mini-remote that now comes with the RX-Vx600 series is, as mentioned, cool. We had to do some "value engineering" on a system going in soon and they're going to use the Yamaha zone 2 remote instead of a programmable one. No source control--we'll see how long it takes them to pony up for an MX-xxx.

tomciara
06-12-2006, 12:32 AM
Interesting how the original question meandered from how you do zone 2 to whether you do it at all and with whose remote.

If anyone is negative about zone 2 I'd guess it's because they haven't really given it a decent try or use the original remote to do it. A smart remote is a must. It then becomes absolutely seamless to the client. I don't even take the OEM out of its little plastic bag anymore.

I think the idea of using 2 channels of a 7.1 amp for zone two only on light loads is good advice.

On the RTI T3 I have the Rock-ola jukebox icon on the home page for Listen to Music (home page also has a TV, DVD and VCR icon). Music jumps to a page that says Music Inside on one button, Music Outside on another, and Music Everywhere on the third. It then jumps to a page with icons for CD, cable music, and iPod, taken from the Source Icons in TT designer. It's a nice eye catcher.

Pilgrim
06-12-2006, 01:34 AM
well....

It is all about control isn't it?

I use ZONE2 on a regular basis (with and without an outboard amp) and the remote makes all of the difference in the world!

If the client can't operate it without 2 pages of notes on a 'legal pad', you've failed!

A properly programed remote = a satisfied client :)

If they can't run it, they won't use it!

roddymcg
06-12-2006, 08:32 AM
well....

It is all about control isn't it?

I use ZONE2 on a regular basis (with and without an outboard amp) and the remote makes all of the difference in the world!

If the client can't operate it without 2 pages of notes on a 'legal pad', you've failed!

A properly programed remote = a satisfied client :)

If they can't run it, they won't use it!

Exactly...

AudibleSolutions
06-29-2006, 07:30 AM
And that is why you use a multi-zone receiver with a serial protocol and a remote that permits serial control. My clients only need to hit the button for the source then want to hear and adjust the volume. No voluminous notes to be written or read and zone 2 operates exactly as does zone 1. It's all about the GUI. Even someone from Kansas ought to be able to operate this system.

Alan

roddymcg
06-29-2006, 08:01 AM
A properly programmed T1/RP1 with IR will acomplish the same thing. If one wants to listen to cable music, then one presses the button labeled cable music. And so...

No thought involved, even people in LA can handle that, maybe even a New Yorker or 2...

Theaterworks
06-29-2006, 08:51 AM
We use the two remaining amp channels ony if we're driving one other room's speakers. Any more than that and it is a separate amp. It may be a separate amp anyway if there is enough room in the cabinet. More often than not, once we're done with the single second zone room the client wants to tag on another room or two's worth of speakers, and then we need to add the amp anyway.