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View Full Version : Bulk audio cable - what do you use?



tomciara
03-12-2005, 05:42 PM
Seems with speaker cables, RG6 and Cat5e we run most of our cabling. Once in awhile a basic L+R audio feed is needed and I wondered what you guys like and where you get it.

Last spool was ProFlex bulk audio cable but wondered what else is out there. I liked it because it was full size and could solder RCAs to it without them breaking the wire (like some mini shielded cables in a bundle I have seen).

Don't care for mini cables too much. That applies to that little crap that comes 5 to a bundle that you are supposed to put RGB+HV ends on and hope they don't flop themselves into oblivion.

Your turn.

vwpower44
03-12-2005, 09:21 PM
We are changing speaker wire brands all the time. It drives me nuts. One day we run IXOS, next day Genesis, next day Monster, etc. We don't stick to one brand. I really like the IXOS and Genesis stuff. Very easy to work with.

Mike

tomciara
03-12-2005, 09:54 PM
I guess my post wasn't that clear. Wondered about shielded L+R audio cables.

AHEM
03-12-2005, 11:29 PM
I stock a couple of different cables for low level audio distribution; an 18/2 with shield and a 22-gauge, 2 pair with each pair shielded.

Kelly
03-13-2005, 07:38 AM
Speaker wire and specialty wire I get from Liberty.

Cat5e usually from ADI.

Coax usually from DOW.

I shop pricing from a variety of suppliers. It's important to the bottom line.

Sort of funny really. We in the industry SHOP prices all the time, yet we don't want our clients to do the same......lol

vwpower44
03-13-2005, 07:54 AM
Extron Mini-RGB is awesome. It is very expensive. Has thick shieled and a thick center conductor. If memory serves me it is about $700 for a 250' roll.

Mike

Anonymous
03-13-2005, 08:05 PM
I like to run 2 pair shielded low capcitance cable. I have also used 1 pair with the shield as common ground. This works as on most equipment the ground is common but I dislike it as if you have a ground loop you cannot tie shield ( drain ) to ground at the send. Mostly I use commercial 2 pair 22 individually shilded wire.

I have never used coaxial cable for audio feeds save sub-woofers and then it was mostly an issue of price. But I am told that Beldon 8281 specs out quite nicely as an audio interconnect.

I only use the most expensive serial digital cables for video. Full bandwidth audio is, what, 5 MHz? Whereas HD signals require cables rated to at least 100MHz.

Alan

AudibleSolutions
03-13-2005, 08:24 PM
Wow!! Now I'm a guest. Has someone been speaking with my wife?

Alan

PAAI
03-15-2005, 07:38 PM
Speaking...no. :)

Nice to see you over here Alan.

-jason

bri-in-nz
03-24-2005, 03:56 AM
We have just started using Belden 1504a. It's easy to pull, has a drain if needed for grounding, and is easy to solder.
we were previously using a taiwanese sourced cable that looked impressive (thick rubberised sheath, triple sheilded and a pretty purple colour) however it couldn't be pulled without tangling or burning through any other cable slightly near it.
The belden also sound considerably cleaner in an a/b comparison.
Video and digital we use belden 1505 and canare v3 for multicore runs.
I know this an old thread now but curious to know if others also use this cable.

whdigital
03-24-2005, 09:57 AM
The Belden is good stuff, so is Canare. Unfortunately, they are both a real pain for me to get conveniently so I recently switched over to Isotec for RGBHV mini and multi colored, high sweep RG59 for everything. No regrets here....

tomciara
03-25-2005, 09:11 AM
Well one of the issues is what you get once you've soldered RCAs on the ends.

I was on an install with some of the mini cables terminated with crimp RCAs and just unplugging and plugging something back in broke the crimp RCA. Floppy as all get out - the weight of the plug is enough to break it loose. A chunkier cable has the bulk to be held in by the strain relief after soldering, which protects the thing from busting loose.

So I have some ProFlex bulk audio cable but it's not so dandy to pull (can be burned by the next cable that gets pulled). So I pull it last.

ATOH
04-10-2005, 11:47 PM
I would like to start using compression connectors from T & B or something similar since I already use the T & B coax connectors and I have the pliers style tool. Has anyone ever tried these? I would be using it for multiroom audio/unbalanced audio interconnects and possibly composite video when needed. The only problem I see with the T & B compression connector is that it only works with RG6. Doesn't save me much room in the long run. I want something flexible and thin to take up minimal room in the cabinet, etc. Any suggestions? I have been soldering connectors but you know how long that takes, and putting on a compression connector takes all of 1 minute. :-)

What type of cabling was used in that great rack picture in the photo gallery? What type of connectors?

WHDIGITAL, what connectors are you using for that Isotec cable? I also use Isotec.

Fastfred
04-12-2005, 08:37 AM
Cable Pro and F conn make the tools and the fitting to terminate a variety of wires with a variety of fittings, including f, bnc, rca for use with 6, 6 qs, 59, serial data, mini rgbhv.

Available from my favorite distributor, and under the brand name monster (at a jumped on price I would suspect), as well as from a variety of other sources too.

Uses the same coax stripper as what you usually use, but a different crimp tool then the t & b/augat.

This years version allows you to color code by buying rubber bands in white, yellow, red, green, blue. Probably more, but I can't remember.

Shadowman68
04-12-2005, 09:48 AM
Leviton has just come out with the same deal, RCA, BNC etc. 1 universal type with different colored rubber bands. So far though, all I have seen is for RG6 and 59.

Fastfred
04-12-2005, 09:54 AM
Leviton buys theirs from fconn/cable pro.

tomciara
12-21-2006, 02:11 PM
I've brought back this old thread with another question. Do you guys mostly solder your ends on bulk shielded L+R audio cable, or do you use compression ends?

In a pinch would the Belden HC2648R, technically an RGB cable, get by for audio? I'm guessing I could use standard compression RCAs this way - rather not tool up for another brand and size of RCAs.

ATOH
12-21-2006, 03:12 PM
This thread is old! We've been using Audioquest for quite a while now and all of their ITC ends and cabling have pretty much taken care of all of these issues. For L+R audio we use the ITA cabling, MAC3 and MAC6 for "miniRGB" applications, and ITG for single digital coax use.

For longer runs, we still keep HD6 (RG6 type cable) around, but for the most part the smaller diameter cable works fine.

TedW
12-21-2006, 03:41 PM
Old thread for sure. I would say run whatever you want for short runs but I always stock belden 1266 from rapco. It's a low capacitance microphone cable and it's CHEAP. Comes in all colors of the rainbow. I solder the RCAs. The trick there is to have a decent iron and more importantly a decent connector. I don't have a part number but I use one made by switchcraft that has a nice strain relief built in.

I also use Belden Mini RGB from A((D for video runs.

Belden coax for CATV

And whatever cat5 is handy for all the rest.

JLIntegra
03-09-2007, 06:23 PM
Most of our Cable from Installer's Choice in W. Hollywood.
- Audio, CAT5e, Coax, Regular and Serial Digital, Crescat, Lutron.
www.icecompany.net

We love these guys because they have great prices and price includes shipping. We are about 2 hours north of them. So yes the UPS guy hates when we order a bunch of 2+2 or Audio cable(we alot of 14 ga).

High end we are starting to use Audioquest.

Darren
03-10-2007, 10:24 PM
REMEE CAT-5e, loudspeaker and RG-6
MONSTER CI-PRO series loudspeaker cable
PLANET WAVES coaxial

QQQ
03-24-2007, 06:03 AM
I know this thread is old but I wonder why some of you guys choose to use cables for line level that require soldering. Impedance does not matter on an audio cable and good compression RCA connectors ARE very reliable. I don't care how fast you are with a soldering iron I'd wager an installer can terminate 5-10 cables with RCA connectors in the time it would take to solder 1. Unless you just enjoy the smell of solder and carrying around a smoldering tool that you have to watch like an eagle to make sure it doesn't set something on fire.

I do see why you'd choose to use cables such as 22/2 pr/ w shield for long runs, as they can used in balanced mode, but even then I'd think you'd use a screw-on balancing transmitter/receiver, and the connect interconnects to that, so no soldering would be required.

roddymcg
03-24-2007, 09:10 AM
When I first started in this business about 10 years ago we used AudioQuest and every end had to be soldered on. And I was the lucky guy to do it. We did not do much in the way of big racks at that time, more just local systems with a 2 zone receiver. But we made every cable in the system to length,even if it was a standard length.

The company also sold stuff on the internet and I got to hang out in the garage and make cable for days on end. I now only break out the soldering iron on a rare occasion.

I like advancements in technology and use them. Especially like when man went from a square wheel to a round one. Makes life so much easier...

Matt S.
03-28-2007, 08:50 PM
I know this thread is old but I wonder why some of you guys choose to use cables for line level that require soldering. Impedance does not matter on an audio cable and good compression RCA connectors ARE very reliable. I don't care how fast you are with a soldering iron I'd wager an installer can terminate 5-10 cables with RCA connectors in the time it would take to solder 1. Unless you just enjoy the smell of solder and carrying around a smoldering tool that you have to watch like an eagle to make sure it doesn't set something on fire.

I do see why you'd choose to use cables such as 22/2 pr/ w shield for long runs, as they can used in balanced mode, but even then I'd think you'd use a screw-on balancing transmitter/receiver, and the connect interconnects to that, so no soldering would be required.

I like using Gepco 61801EZ for all of our audio applications. They come in different colors for easy ID and much smaller and easier to work with. I'd much rather run 10 of those audio lines than 10 coax. A lot of our audio is balanced anyway so we can't use coax. Makes more sense for us to use 1 type of cable for audio. I'm pretty quick at soldering them but I agree that I can't do them as fast as compression.

Matt

EvolutionHT
05-02-2007, 11:18 PM
We use Tributaries Serial Digital 3.0GHz cable for our custom interconnects (Audio & Video). It strips easily & the compression ends go on smoothly as well. They make it in a bunch of colors with clear jackets("cool factor"). We also use their PentaVideo(mini coax x 5) cable for runs to plasmas, etc. It works like a champ, but you need to remember to peel back the foil when putting the ends on;) or you'll get intermittant results.

avconnection
05-03-2007, 05:38 AM
We are switching to Liberty Cable exclusively.

22/2 with shield - Balanced Audio
25-CMR - Audio/Video with compression BNC/RCA

HiFiGuy1
05-31-2007, 09:32 PM
Have any of you tried the Planet Waves stuff from D'addario? I would love to have your input. I just got in a sample kit, and have used it a few times. On the postive side, it is flexible, relatively small and available in colors. The ends are reusable, as they screw on with a set screw. We are still learning the best techniques for terminating them, as our early efforts resulted in a few non-functional cables. Seems you have to be fairly careful to make a clean cut at each cable end, and screw the set screw in ALL the way, and it is fine. Anyway, I am undecided right now, but I really do like the ability to custom-terminate lengths in the back of a rack so there is no excess. I know Audioquest also sells custom stuff with compression fittings, and I may give that a shot since we are AQ dealers, in case the Planet Waves stuff doesn't pan out.

djnorm
05-31-2007, 10:16 PM
This was discussed at length - I believe at RC. Someone from the company even chimed in a few times. I don't remember the upshot - I'm pretty sure they had some specific issues, and claimed to have fixed them and a few guys had already dropped them at that point.

D-A/V
05-31-2007, 10:45 PM
We just droped Planet Waves and went to Liberty. The problems were too much for us. Even after they replaced about a 100 connectors for us they worked for a while than we just started to have the same problems. So we gave up on them.

2ndRick
06-01-2007, 12:43 AM
We just dropped Planet Waves and went to Liberty. The problems were too much for us. Even after they replaced about a 100 connectors for us they worked for a while than we just started to have the same problems. So we gave up on them.

I hear that your Liberty rep is a pretty cool cat...
Even if he brings out the demo kit on the way from the ballpark to the bar on a Saturday night...

Back to the OT... Liberty 23AWG solid-center mini serial/digital is a great choice these days.

In the past, I have used a lot of the 20AWG (RG-59 size) serial/digital. The 23AWG mini with the solid center conductor is similar to the 20AWG for ease-of-termination (and significantly easier than any other mini-RGBs), but it makes neater bundles in racks.

As for the long runs, Mogami audio cable can't be beat (I believe it's an 18/2+drain x 2pr, with individually shielded pairs, but they also made snake cable with multiple pairs in a single jacket).

It can be used single-ended (RCAs) or balanced (BNC), and nearly any recording studio you could name is wired with the stuff.

With as simple an as good as s/d coax is for line level audio applications, it would be rare for me to recommend that anyone seek out Mogami these days...

Another benefit of s/d coax is that it can carry digital audio or even video with no compromise if the design gets changed. Line level cable is a one-trick pony.

tomciara
06-01-2007, 08:49 AM
Another cable thread...let me jump in.

I carry a pile of ProFlex in all lengths, and yes they take up some space.

I have Belden 2650 mini RGBHV for longer or custom lengths to a display. However, my eyes aren't as sharp as they were, and terminating one of them is a workout. I figure a half hour to do both ends, getting the itty bitty shield wires cleaned up and all. It's getting faster with the new one piece ends that ProConnect sells...BUT, I cannot fathom doing a whole system of those. A half a morning or half a day of terminating, forget it. That's with mini.

I'm assuming you have a favorite cable for component and L&R audio. It's got to terminate as fast as RG6 or I ain't going there.

D-A/V
06-01-2007, 08:52 AM
I hear that your Liberty rep is a pretty cool cat...
Even if he brings out the demo kit on the way from the ballpark to the bar on a Saturday night...



He is a pretty cool cat, but needs to invest in a GPS. That way next time we all go out for a drink and "Sales Meeting" he won't show up 4 hours late :D Unless we meet in Chinatown

BorgCustom
06-01-2007, 09:21 AM
Have any of you tried the Planet Waves stuff from D'addario?

I'm not a seasoned veteran like many of you here, but I bought some Planet Waves stuff, used it on 3 installs so far, no issues. Seems pretty easy to work with so far, flexible, quick terminations.

Ken
http://www.borgaudiovideo.com

2ndRick
06-01-2007, 09:22 AM
LOL...

I wasn't FOUR HOURS late!!

It was only the third inning...

I definitely need a GPS, I bought Microsoft Streets & Trips w/ the GPS USB dongle.

Although I found out that it's not exactly practical to open the laptop while driving... Well, that plus the damn thing doesn't seem to actually work anyway.

I would bet that there is something mentioned in the manual that may help me get that set up!

It's an RTFM issue, I am certain. I may work on that this weekend between trips to the new place and buying new furniture.

TedW
06-01-2007, 09:26 AM
I haven't tried the latest version of streets and "trips" but in general I have always preferred the delorme software and GPS solution. They have a voice recognition navigation module that I think my next laptop might actually be powerful enough to make work properly. Then opening the laptop and entering a route on the fly might actually work.

HiFiGuy1
06-02-2007, 01:11 PM
We are switching to Liberty Cable exclusively.

22/2 with shield - Balanced Audio
25-CMR - Audio/Video with compression BNC/RCA

AV Connection! That was the name of my first custom-installation company I started in February 1995. I sold it to my partner three and a half years later, but they are still in business to this day. :)

tomciara
06-07-2007, 12:32 PM
Question - if you are running 50, 100 feet or more of L + R audio, do you still run standard audio cables or do you now routinely run cat5 and use adapters at each end?

The adapters sure take the pain out of soldering and lead fumes!

idodishez
06-07-2007, 05:09 PM
Question - if you are running 50, 100 feet or more of L + R audio, do you still run standard audio cables or do you now routinely run cat5 and use adapters at each end?

The adapters sure take the pain out of soldering and lead fumes!

I dont have the answer, but assuming you mean line level not speaker level?

ConCon
06-07-2007, 08:29 PM
I wish my Liberty Rep. would call and set up an account for us.

Dig!!!

TouchToBegin
06-07-2007, 09:28 PM
LOL...

I wasn't FOUR HOURS late!!

It was only the third inning...

I definitely need a GPS, I bought Microsoft Streets & Trips w/ the GPS USB dongle.

Although I found out that it's not exactly practical to open the laptop while driving... Well, that plus the damn thing doesn't seem to actually work anyway.

I would bet that there is something mentioned in the manual that may help me get that set up!

It's an RTFM issue, I am certain. I may work on that this weekend between trips to the new place and buying new furniture.

I use that, I bought the Bluetooth dock for the receiver. Let me tell you, its no fun dealing with the blue screen of death on 285 in Atlanta.

I do like using it though when it works right. Keep that on, while my mobile phone keeps me on the internet, and I can get things like real time construction updates (not sure how acurate they really are though) and have email coming in, all while driving. This is probably not a good I idea really, but at least I'm not programming too.

tomciara
06-07-2007, 09:33 PM
I dont have the answer, but assuming you mean line level not speaker level?

Line level.

2ndRick
06-12-2007, 08:54 PM
I wish my Liberty Rep. would call and set up an account for us.

Dig!!!
Oooh... I missed this one!!

Guess who is getting a call tomorrow??

Matt
06-12-2007, 08:59 PM
Guess who is getting a call tomorrow??


Elvis?

2ndRick
06-12-2007, 09:21 PM
I try every day...

Limelight Systems
07-24-2007, 07:16 AM
ok fotruneteller your avatar is just wrong.

Limelight Systems
07-24-2007, 07:16 AM
ok fotruneteller your avatar is just wrong.

idodishez
07-24-2007, 07:23 AM
I dont get the avatar. Is that Steve Irwin? What is all the other stuff?