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cmo_uk
03-25-2005, 08:50 AM
Recently we have been called in to fix a couple of systems installed by another company, the wiring was a mess.

Can anyone give their best advice on their procedure for tidying up cables, labelling, grouping and so on.

Thanks,

Chris.

Kelly
03-25-2005, 09:37 AM
Velcro tie wraps?

It concerns me that so many guys are using those plastic tie wraps that can be cinched down into a locked position. Sure you can really clamp down on the wiring and make it look good, but the next person in line must clip all those things off in order to do any amount of trouble shooting. And then there's the issue with altering the capabilities of cat5e in the network, or inducing some crosstalk.

sirroundsound
03-25-2005, 12:56 PM
If the client is aware about how much time could be spent (and should be spent) to clean up a mess and is willing to pay the price, then you can take everything apart and start fresh. Remember something, once you start playing with someone elses wire job, you are now taking responsibilty for it. You need to take each wire, confirm, test and re label. In a large project, done by, well I'll say done by just about anyone other than the people you see on this site, you run fairly good odd's that none of the wires were ever tested, which means you may find a few bad connections out there. As you are testing (and finding) these wires you should also be documenting them. After all that, you now have the task of re routing the wires to wherever they are supposed to go, in a sensible manner, so it doesn't look like a jumbled mess. This should be done with the idea that future service issues will be easy to handle. This will be important to you, as everything gets re conneted you are going to want to test things, if you run into problems you certainly don't want to be ripping wires out all over the place trying to solve things.
Now the difficult part, and this is the best reason for Velcro straps, as you are getting things working, you want to tie things down and make them neat, but ultimatly there will always be a couple of wires near the end that have to be routed in areas that you may have thought you were finished with.
It's time consuming, very hard to estimate.

The8thst
04-02-2005, 05:40 PM
I use plastic zip ties all the time, but the mehtod I use is to leave the main zip ties fairly loose until everything is completely done, then you can slide wires out and reroute them without cutting the zip ties.
When you are done you tighten them so they are just snug, not overly tight, just enough to keep everything neat.

You just have to think far enough ahead to not cause problems down the road. When I first started I made the zip ties too tight and put way too many of them so I was always having to go through and cut them 30 times, its a learning process like everything else we do. I'd even go far enough to say it is an art.

vwpower44
04-02-2005, 11:24 PM
I second teh plastic zip ties. It is definetly an art form, and I am very meticulious. We go through thousands per month. By the way, HD has teh best price per 1k.

Mike

lowvoltguy
04-02-2005, 11:41 PM
I'm a zip tie junkie too :D

AudibleSolutions
05-03-2005, 08:38 PM
I'm with Kelly on using velco and not using wire ties. Sure they permit you to make it pretty ( but never my racks ) but the moment you have a problem you need to cut every tie rap to remove the "euroconnectors" ( new name for pheonix connectors ), interconnects and speaker wires so you can read the labels ( assuming there are labels ). The velco ties cost a bit more but permit the same neat installation in the end and do not create any issues where trouble shooting. The issue is not just the initial install when the plastic ties are loose but 2 years later when there is some issue that requires trouble shooting. Oh, yes, he who did the rack only does racks so is not the poor soul performing the service call 2 years later; therefore since it's not him suffering plastic ties win the day.

Alan

Matt
05-14-2005, 12:09 AM
We started using velcro after the reconifiguring of our showroom equipment for the last time (till next week-then...). Tie wraps are no longer allowed in our racks.

Glackowitz
05-14-2005, 12:24 AM
I have used velcro for several years..its nice when you have to go back and pull a unit for service or upgrade

We get Velcro on a roll from textol systems we usualy get 6 rolls at a time and cut desired length

www.textol.com
it is called- Velcro brand ONE-WRAP and its 1/2" wide by 75 feet
Part Number 189755
1800-624-8746

Darren
06-05-2005, 01:18 AM
I probably have the least experience here, but I'll toss my $.02 worth in. One of the most important things I walked away with at ICIA Training, was cable preparation, identification and signal separation.
I am currently working on a system that no one else would touch. A completed dedicated home theater that looked very nice, until you saw the equipment room.

There you found the back of a Middle Atlantic rack composed of an HD Receiver, DVD Player, SACD Player, KDS HD Video Processor, 7.1 A/V Processor, 7 Ch. amp, S-VHS VCR, Monster HT A/C Line Conditioner and a HTPC. The wires and cables were a MESS! I am talking RGBHV cables running to the Sanyo projector with BNC connects terminated by hand-twisting the conductors together... AND LEFT BARE AND EXPOSED!!! Make-shift Component Cables made from two 25ga Mini-Coax and one RG-6. XLR Balanced Audio Cable bought from a local music shop stretched and bent so badly that the installer had to loosen the XLR connector collar to allow the cable to bend back upon itself... guess he didn't know how to make his own cables, nor was he smart enuff to take the short cable back and get longer ones! Of course nothing was labeled. Nothing. This was a true nightmare.

I nearly passed on the job. But having just started my own business I can't be to picky.

I prepared a bid... and I told the client it wasn't going to be pretty. I told him I was gonna start from scratch. Out with the old cable mess and in with the new.

He called me back about a month later. I assumed he was getting other estimates... and I imagine he was getting no where with anyone else wanting a piece of that action.

The first day on the job I had the rack naked and the old cables in a heap in a trash bag. I constructed new cables on site, labeled each with my new RhinoPro 5000. Separated the Power and voltage cables to the right side of the rack. Ran the audio and video cables in the center and left of the rack. All nicely presented and organized with zip-ties to the MA cable supports I added to his exsisting MA Rack.

The client returned the next morning while I was working on rack. He was bubbling with excitement and kept telling me what an awesome job I was doing. He said I had done more in one day than the original installer had done in two weeks.

So stick with the basics. Separate cables to prevent interference and cross-talk. Label each cable, legibly. Use the correct cable and connector required for the connection. Keep the runs short and direct. Keep it tidy.

One more thing. Keep the area clean! I vaccum after everydays work. The client's wife said I was a neat freek! Not really. You should see me around my own house! :roll:
Keeping your area clean and safe for others, only reflects positivily upon your work ethic and professionalism.

FYI: I work in hospital three nights a week (hopefully not much longer as my business begins to grow!)

Last week I had a 16 month old little girl come in to our ER. Parents said she had been crawling around on the carpet and suddenly began choking and coughing. This quicly passed; but being the cautious parents they were they brought her to us just in case. She seemed perfectly fine. Giggling, pink and happy.

Upon closer examination and XRay of the abdomen guess what we found?

A single copper strand of wire in her stomach!

Know how it got there?

The T--- W----R Cable guy had just installed a new outlet for the young couple that same evening. The wife had noticed he was cutting and trimming cable...and being quite sloppy about it. He left the insulation and trimmings behind when he was finished. She had tried to clean it herself, but had missed a few obviously.

This could have been a terrible outcome... but in the case, the wire was small enuff that nature could take its course.

2ndRick
06-20-2005, 01:09 PM
We also use velcro wraps.

We buy the Panduit velcro in rolls and cut to length.

You can get a velcro tied rack to dress as neatly as a zip tied rack, you just need strong fingers!!

As for labeling, use one of the available labelers from Dymo Pro or Kroy.
There are threads here and on the CI Lounge at RC that discuss the pros and cons of each labeler.

My partner is a freak and made a color code with multiple stripes of colored elec tape to represents the various rooms in a home. You know the 3M electrical tape display at the elec supplier in the whole rainbow of colors that is usually covered with dust?? We are the ones that actually buy all of the colors.

I always thought we would max out that plan, but even on the last mega project that was over 30K ft^2, his plan was detailed enough to facilitate a dedicated color code for all of the rooms, so we let him run with it.

Personally, I would prefer to custom label and then heatshrink over it.

sirroundsound
06-20-2005, 09:18 PM
Another reason for velcro.... now that we all are using Cat6 more and more (right??) you shouldn't zip tie cat 6 cables, you don't want to go and pinch one of them, that would be a big no no.

djnorm
06-21-2005, 06:28 AM
We buy all the colors too... (except brown... can't read sharpie on brown...) If you hadn't noticed, they sell 35 in all of the colors of telephone wire... You can therefore make an unlimited number of codes using the standard Blue,Orange,Green,Brown,Slate White,Red,Black,Yellow,Violet color code.

PS just got my order of that velcro, and am still itching to use it in a rack... Thanks to everyone for the sources...

LarryFine
08-15-2005, 09:21 PM
... the standard Blue,Orange,Green,Brown,Slate White,Red,Black,Yellow,Violet color code.If you rearrange those colors, you get the 'other' standard color code: black, brown, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, violet, gray, white. These colors correspond directly to digits 0 through 9, so you can represent numbers up to 99 with only two wraps of tape.

I sometimes use pairs of tape colors for, say, speaker wiring, in another way: white and red as usual for left and right, another color for center, and add a second color for front, another for rear, maybe a third for upper and lower for bi-amping/bi-wiring, etc.

Pilgrim
08-17-2005, 01:04 AM
You think wire ties are bad for troubleshooting.

Try 10 year old black tape

I would much rather snip a few ties than deal with the goo of old tape.

I admit, I use wire ties!

I also leave a 'service loop' to allow troubleshooting(along with properly labled wires).

If done properly,it looks good and you can move a piece of equipement without it coming undone!