View Full Version : Anyone Use Middle Atlantic
vwpower44
05-13-2005, 04:04 PM
We are looking into using Middle Atlantic on future jobs. I was just wondering what you guys are using (model wise)? What you like and dislike? How easy are they to assemble? How easy are they to integrate into custom cabinetry? Thanks.
Mike
avophile
05-13-2005, 04:45 PM
Middle Atlantic has great stuff. I use the Slim-5 series racks in utility areas or commercial applications where low price and high functionality rule. I have used Raxxess's ROTR swivel system racks many times and like them; they are convenient when you have a cabinet with no rear access but a lot of equipment to mount. I'm not crazy about their shelves with clamps for cable boxes, and their equipment seems to ship with very little in the way of documentation... although you can get in online at www.raxxess.com. I find that Middle Atlantic shelves work better, their shelves with custom face plates can't be beat, and their documentation is good. I am going to try the new Middle Atlantic AX-SXR series rotating rack soon with service rails soon, it looks really good. The ASR-HD also looks really good, but I haven't tried it yet.
The problem with the rotating racks and custom cabinets is that you need to allow space on either side of the rack for the rack to rotate. You end up with a space that cabinet makers want to fill in, but you'll have to be very careful that their trim and its support doesn't get in your way, or is readily removable. It is best to have the rack on site, or at the millworker's shop to avoid mistakes. Also, keep in mind that the pivoting mechanism causes the overall rack height to be greater than the height of the rack spaces you specify. That's why the manufacturers' documentation is so important.
They are all pretty easy to assemble, but take a little time. As soon as you get a system down, you're done and on to the next task.
When I was a junior installer, I tried to make myself useful by putting the shelves with custom face plates together, putting the batteries in the remote controls, and attaching the emitter eyes to the sources, while the senior guys wired the racks. Then I could clean up the packaging, organize the manuals, or organize the tools. Now I just do those tasks mindlessly when my back hurts from leaning into the cabinet.
Glackowitz
05-13-2005, 05:52 PM
We specify MA racks into all jobs. We mainly use the AXS racks, and all custom shelves. We have a couple of jobs where we actaully bolted 2 racks side by side and made a huge rack. just make sure you add in lace bars for wire management, and use velco to hold all the wiring in place, this way if you tend to add wires and swap out equipment its easier to do with out cutting a couple of dozen wire ties and replaceing them.
We get Velcro on a roll from textol systems we usualy get 6 rolls at a time and cut desired length
www.textol.com
it is called- Velcro brand ONE-WRAP and its 1/2" wide by 75 feet
Part Number 189755
1800-624-8746
mr2channel
05-13-2005, 06:41 PM
MA...great product, try to spec it into every job, use the SRS and the slim 5 the most, but using a few of the AXS. they have very good documentation that I send to every cabinet maker that we work with if a MA is going into the job. Just don't forget your ground wire to stay up to code. I can't remember who it was, but someone that posts here regularly got a nice little shock because one of his installers got a little rough with a zip tie around a power cord and had a little A/C for breakfast.
total side note...
stuff I try to require on every project
PC based programmable remote
IR repeater system
line conditioner
pull out rack (like the MA)
only gear that is easy to integrate (discrete codes, RS 232.....)
my 02
sirroundsound
05-13-2005, 08:28 PM
We use the WRK or ERK series alot in basement equipment rooms. Have also used a few different types that get mounted on walls.
Jerry
05-13-2005, 09:54 PM
We use the WRK or ERK series alot in basement equipment rooms. Have also used a few different types that get mounted on walls.
How are the ERK's to wire and get around?
I have been using the MRK for stand-alones. Very nice for cabling.
ejfiii
05-13-2005, 10:38 PM
Can't imagine not using a SRSR or at least SR MA rack in a base cabinet. In fact, it is now a requirement. If you want me to put equipment in a closed base cabinet, it goes in a SRSR rack. If they don't want to pay, then we cut out the custom rack shelves and just put the gear on bare shelves and put all the rack mount stuff around it. Squeeze in a few vent panels and no one really notices that the custom shelves aren't used.
In standalone situations its all about the Slim5. Add sides and door and you have a sweet looking very professional setup. In both cases, when the owner shows off his system(s), even the techiest geek guest goes gaga over the racks - no matter how good the equipment contained in said rack is.
Couple of tips. Even thought the 2 slide SR and SRSR racks say they are rated for 150lbs, when fully pulled out with gear it will sag. No chance of breaking, but its worth fifty more bucks to get the 4 slide model. The way to tell is the number 2 or 4 after the rack name. So a 12 space (standard height for us) SRSR model number looks like this: SRSR4-12. (SRS is Sliding Rail System while SRSR is Sliding Rail System Rotating)
Build the rack at your shop before going on site. The new SRSR and SRS rack can separate the actual rack from the base. This is HUGE. Most of the rack weight is in the base. So remove the base, build the rack, go to site, install base, drop rack on base, tighten 4 wing nuts, crack beer, enjoy.
Lacer bars and other tips here are a no brainer. Wire management is cake. I figure these racks must save me at least an hour installing a system in a base cabinet.
Also, you don't have to go to AVAD for this stuff. Call MA and find a pro audio distributor in your area, or even a pro audio dealer. Most of them will sell at our distributor pricing.
Not much else I can say other than I freakin' love their products. Lots of pics if you want any for practical applications.
djnorm
05-14-2005, 07:14 PM
I can't remember who it was, but someone that posts here regularly got a nice little shock because one of his installers got a little rough with a zip tie around a power cord and had a little A/C for breakfast.
That was me... But thankfully, someone else got the shock - I just related the anecdote...
My boss had a bad experience with them years ago... I finally talked him into trying again, and now we use them a lot... We like the AXS and the WRK, but I've used the SR series, too. All good.
Norm
vwpower44
05-16-2005, 04:16 PM
THanks for all of the input, it is appreciated as always. A few questions:
How do you ground the rack?
Is there a screw terminal on the rack, or does it ground through an electrical box?
How do you spec the rack in the installation considereing all of the different options for mounting, etc? Or do you just put a figure in and rool with it.
Thanks again.
Mike
avophile
05-16-2005, 05:53 PM
Our contract has a clause that states that we are to be given all cabinet design documents for approval on fit and serviceability. We try to spec the rack that will work best, but design changes often come along. You must allow for the hardware you will use to do the install, and require the cabinet maker to give you a platform to which you can safely bolt your sliding and rotating racks. Your installation charges also have to be different for rolling racks, sliding and rotating racks, adjustable shelves, and rack location that don't allow for rear access. The labor savings on using the more professional, convenient, and long-run service charge savings are selling points that can offset the extra equipment costs. One day I will be able to turn down jobs that force me to accept the latter two options, but not yet!
ejfiii
05-16-2005, 06:12 PM
Our contract also says that we must approve cabinet designs.
Try rack tools - its a free software from Middle Atlantic that is a plug in to Visio (you must have visio). It takes me 10 minutes to draw out a rack using that program and it even prints out a MSRP complete rack system based on what you drew. Then both the drawing and quote are good professional add ins to any proposal. Before rack tools we would give a set amount for a slide out, a set amount for a larger floor rack etc... But now with rack tools, the client can see right there what each piece of the rack costs. Give them a discount from that MSRP list and they are usually happy. If they don't want to pay that much, cut out the custom shelves and just put the equipment on plain shelves (careful of the depth of the equipment as different shelves have different depths (cable box wont fit on a U1, SR7500 receiver won't fit on a U3 (but a 3805 will))). Then a few vent panels to fill the holes and you are good to go. Oh, and this is where its nice to use as much rack mount stuff as you can to avoid the pricey shelves. Panamax and Furman are all rack mountable. Lots of amps are too.
We spec the srsr in all jobs but have done a few sr's too. I prefer the rotating units but are a little taller if your crunched for space. It is tough to put an actual figure in the proposal so I usually use an allowance which is with 15% of the final cost. I also tell the customer to allow an additional 3-4 hours labor if we dont use one - a good selling point.
mr2channel
05-16-2005, 10:50 PM
How do you ground the rack?
just as you would a DSS, and it SHOULD go to the main service ground, but I have had to bond to the main service panels ground after the GC covered the ground rod w/ 12ft of backfill. I guess in a pinch, though may not be up to code, but still offering some degree of saftey, you could ground the rack to the ground lug of an A/C outlet.
MikeTech
05-17-2005, 02:38 PM
I also try and always use the AXS rack in Cabinetry and always use an ERK in an equipment room. We also add disclaimers in our contracts about being involved in cabinet design for our rack systems and for air intake and exhaust. Many times we're the ones who refer the cabinet makers anyway so they get to know what you need and when to contact you.
I like the AXS for larger racks but if you are using a shorter one sometimes the extension legs dont allow the rack to come out far enough. Next time i need a small rack i'd spec the spinning type.
Anonymous
05-19-2005, 04:26 AM
AXS racks are great.
I use AXS and Slim 5 most often, and I HEARTILY second the recommendation for using RackTools if you do not have D-Tools.
I buy mine from AVAD/Allnet EGV, and there is a good reason for me...
(Owen knows)
Theaterworks
05-19-2005, 08:27 AM
Yes, I know. I'm direct with MA; didn't want to mess with a distributor, and we were able to make MA's annual $ amount.
RobbieS
05-19-2005, 08:39 AM
Yes, I know. I'm direct with MA; didn't want to mess with a distributor, and we were able to make MA's annual $ amount.
So what is MA's annual $ amount???
We used to use their racks through distribution. Tried to go direct with MA but switched to raxxess. Back then MA didn't seem to want to give us the time of day.
Robert
05-20-2005, 09:31 PM
Great product. We don’t use slim5 unless space is a real problem. There is no room for wire management. Past that look close at dimensions and the space you have to work with. Use rack tools. I’m at home now and so I can’t look at a catalog but we use MRKs, ERKs, and WRKs on our jobs. Direct buy requirement is low. It use to be $10k a year. I not sure now. Custom shelfs for most anything. We use custom shelfs and the shelf clamps to prebuild in our shop. Then we can lay the rack on it’s back to move it. Hard to go wrong.
netarc
03-15-2006, 12:25 PM
Middle Atlantic has great stuff. I use the Slim-5 series racks in utility areas or commercial applications where low price and high functionality rule. I have used Raxxess's ROTR swivel system racks many times and like them; they are convenient when you have a cabinet with no rear access but a lot of equipment to mount. I'm not crazy about their shelves with clamps for cable boxes, and their equipment seems to ship with very little in the way of documentation... although you can get in online at www.raxxess.com. I find that Middle Atlantic shelves work better, their shelves with custom face plates can't be beat, and their documentation is good. I am going to try the new Middle Atlantic AX-SXR series rotating rack soon with service rails soon, it looks really good. The ASR-HD also looks really good, but I haven't tried it yet.
Hey ... checking in, did you ever install the MA AX-SXR? How did it compare with Raxxess' ROTR system? I'm debating which to use in an upcoming millwork design, would love to hear your comparison of the two!
Theaterworks
03-16-2006, 07:51 AM
I had remembered MA's annual requirement as 5K. It could be different now.
On the swiveling racks, I have a question. Every time I've done one of these the loom of wires leaving the rack presents two problems: 1) the stiffness of the wire makes swiveling the rack and putting the rack back in place, and 2) the size of the wire loom generally collides with the front face edges of the millwork when swivelling the rack, because the loom is too big and the rack does not roll out far enough to clear much space behind the rack corners.
Anyone have this same wire loom problem? Any solution I'm missing other than use less wire? The marketing pics are a joke, showing just a few small wires leaving the rack even though it is full of gear.
Anonymous
03-16-2006, 10:34 AM
Don't you realize most of that equipment is wireless? That is the future ;).
The8thst
03-19-2006, 02:11 PM
I have found that using many small bundles of wire going width-wise across the back of the rack works better than one large bundle. Also, try moving the rack as far forward as the the equipment allows when mounting it.
We are looking into using Middle Atlantic on future jobs. I was just wondering what you guys are using (model wise)? What you like and dislike? How easy are they to assemble? How easy are they to integrate into custom cabinetry? Thanks.
Mike
What else is there? Other rack companies hardly compare...unless I'm missing something?
Special-Ed
04-18-2006, 04:11 PM
ditto, ma is the only way to go.
ed
Middle Atlantic has ZERO dollar requirement to be direct now.
you should have 2 bundles...1 power...1 cabling. they are to criss cross and enter at the top of the rack. On the back of the rack...put the blanks high and low...none in the middle...allow the bundles to cross and go between the blanks on the fixed rear rear rails....I hope that made sense.:rolleyes:
I had remembered MA's annual requirement as 5K. It could be different now.
On the swiveling racks, I have a question. Every time I've done one of these the loom of wires leaving the rack presents two problems: 1) the stiffness of the wire makes swiveling the rack and putting the rack back in place, and 2) the size of the wire loom generally collides with the front face edges of the millwork when swivelling the rack, because the loom is too big and the rack does not roll out far enough to clear much space behind the rack corners.
Anyone have this same wire loom problem? Any solution I'm missing other than use less wire? The marketing pics are a joke, showing just a few small wires leaving the rack even though it is full of gear.
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