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View Full Version : Other companies touching your work right after install



OEX
05-27-2005, 09:05 PM
Editted

ejfiii
05-28-2005, 09:02 AM
That sucks Kevin. Who was the other company?

FWIW my contract clearly states that modern electronic systems that we sell and install are professionally calibrated to offer the best picture and sound available. Additionally, all control systems are highly advanced and custom programmed for your project. Any changes made to these systems by anyone other than a rep from (insert your company name here) that renders the system as less than optimal or inoperable will be subject to our standard labor rate of (insert your labor rate here) and cost of materials to fix.

Something like that in your contract may help you in the future.

Still want to know what company in our area is eyeballing Fujitsu calibrations as I am sure Fuji would like to know.

OEX
05-28-2005, 09:08 AM
Company = *************************

Anonymous
05-28-2005, 10:28 AM
What are you really pissed about? Someone touching an install that you have been paid in full for or someone from out of town getting the other job? Stop crying and move on to the next job.

Theaterworks
05-28-2005, 11:01 AM
I've never had another company come in my heels to mess with things. In my case its the satellite guy/cable guy/client with ants in his pants. I bill for correcting the work. Yeah, there's the territorial issue, but we need to be practical. Your client should know that another guy needs to stay out of your work. What's the deal anyway with two different CI guys working the same project?

OEX
05-28-2005, 12:11 PM
editted

avzone
05-28-2005, 11:49 PM
What are you really pissed about? Someone touching an install that you have been paid in full for or someone from out of town getting the other job? Stop crying and move on to the next job.

Well, aren't we a little combative? Not to mention unprofessional. From "Performance Audio Consultants" I presume?

How much value is your post intended to offer? What's the benefit?

Do us a favor...keep your status as a guest. You obviously have nothing of value to contribute to the IP's membership.

Anonymous
05-29-2005, 10:27 AM
So it is not unprofessional to listen to heresay by another member and take that as the truth? It is not unprofessional to name and trash other companies in a public forum? It is not unprofessional to tell other members to call ISF and rat out some company based on heresay?

You guys are rich.

And I am not from the company mentioned. Just a PROFESSIONAL who doesn't cry to his online buddies when a clent uses another company for an install.

OEX
05-29-2005, 11:47 AM
editted

avzone
05-29-2005, 01:33 PM
So it is not unprofessional to listen to heresay by another member and take that as the truth?
The word is "hearsay" and the answer is no. It's based on actual knowledge and experience. He was there so, it's not hearsay.


It is not unprofessional to name and trash other companies in a public forum?
See response above.


It is not unprofessional to tell other members to call ISF and rat out some company based on heresay?
Once again, no. They have violated their duty to support & maintain the ISF brand. Also, see response above.


And I am not from the company mentioned.
Too bad. I'm sure they'd hire you. Be sure to tell them that you are PROFESSIONAL and don't "rat" on anyone. You're a "shoe-in."


Just a PROFESSIONAL who doesn't cry to his online buddies when a clent uses another company for an install.
Bonus! Tell them you don't cry either. :wink:

Kevin, I commend you for taking pride in your work and actually giving a sh*t. Unfortunately, there are too many integrators that don't, but then again those are "trunk slammers."

OK. That's it for me. Subject dropped.

Anonymous
05-30-2005, 07:44 AM
Violated thier duty?

That's funny. Do you really think ISF gives a Sh*t about duty? Come on they list Monster Cable as a certified manufacturer! Monster Cable "High Fidelity Video" products!? Please.

Wah. Wah. Wah. Stop hiding behind "guest".

Go change your diaper baby. Then you can call and complain to ISF. Like they care. All they care about is making money with that "ISF Brand".

Gary
05-30-2005, 10:49 AM
QQQ?

roddymcg
05-30-2005, 11:21 AM
QQQ?

He got me once with posts like this so I am just observing this time, except for this:)

Gary
05-30-2005, 11:52 AM
QQQ?

He got me once with posts like this so I am just observing this time, except for this:)


Well I'm going to tend to agree with Owen, how did you get yourself in a position of being on a job with a second firm? And why would the second firm be doing "work" it's not getting paid for?

And lets not get in the habit of "telling" on other firms, were not seven years old, if they have bad ethics or act unprofessional, there's this thing called karma.

I'm not saying this doesn't suck, but you put yourself in a position of working on a project with a compeating firm.

OEX
05-30-2005, 01:01 PM
QQQ?

He got me once with posts like this so I am just observing this time, except for this:)


Well I'm going to tend to agree with Owen, how did you get yourself in a position of being on a job with a second firm? And why would the second firm be doing "work" it's not getting paid for?

Their Pronto was defective and got stuck sitting around an entire day waiting for Fedex. Bordem I guess.


And lets not get in the habit of "telling" on other firms, were not seven years old, if they have bad ethics or act unprofessional, there's this thing called karma.


My original intent was to see how you guys would have handled this.


I'm not saying this doesn't suck, but you put yourself in a position of working on a project with a compeating firm.

Not really. We were each working in our own units as contracted for.

I guess I should have taken fuck it and go fuck the customer attitude that seems to be the general concensus.

That sucks.

And Gary - if your going to edit my posts of other company names - edit them all.

Gary
05-30-2005, 01:59 PM
I didn't say f*ck the customer, I don't think I understand the whole situation here, but it seems you've dug yourself into a little bit of a hole, stop digging, stop digging. Redo the calibration, stop worrying about company B, get finished as fast as you can, be glad you got paid, and move on, lesson learned.

It is almost always better to take the high road.

And the verified forums are the place for venting, and I understand your need to vent, but airing this in public makes us all look bad.

ericstac
05-30-2005, 02:25 PM
It sounded like OEX got burned by this other asshat company. The other tech probably went in and said "see my fuji. this is how a real company does his shit, see your other plasma OEX fucked you on that one, but I will go over there and adjust it to look like my fuji and you will be looking good." And clueless buyer says freakin' cool and now auto. assumes asshat is right and OEX is wrong and now the nonISF calibration is king and the proper ISF is shit.

It's all in the eyes of perception. I would be pissed too if this happened to me. But like others have said get paid and move on. You will have to pull a miracle off to make this buyer on your side and not like the other company now.

Ohh and Gary is right, Vent in the verified. I mean, I LOVE all my clients so I would never need to vent, but if I needed to I wouldn't want there to be the slightest chance in hell they could ever find and see some trash talk.

rhm9
05-31-2005, 08:10 AM
I've been in a similar situation... we prewired a house and were on the hook for trimming plates and the OnQ panel. Turns out the family's son worked for a local car stereo warehouse and "knew everything about AV". The first thing he did was try to find all of the stuff we were proposing at the local distributors and when he couldn't he assumed it was shit (Stuff like Bay Audio... Integra). Our proposal was canned and we waited for the fallout from juniors attempt.

Fast forward a few months and were caled back to "Finish" our trimout (gosh... I thought we had). Get ambushed by other company whos been hired because their bid came in 24K below ours. Brand new company to the residential end from the commercial side. They're telling the customer that the rectangular speakers we have placed brackets for in the ceiling are ONLY FOR IN WALL USE as they install these 70 volt metal garbage close to our brackets and convince the customer we should patch the holes. What they need though is help FINDING THE WIRES that the cabinet maker put his cabinets over.

I did a Gary and took the high road. In just over an hour I FOUND all the wires (with this wonderful little device called a toner)... lined up a patch guy while getting the owner to pay for it... answered many rookie stupid questions and didn't laugh once at the ratsnest these idiots created (until I was driving away). My Integra stuff was now Sony... My Fujitsu Plasmas were now commercial Panasonics which looked like dogs--t. Even with this I can't possibly see how these guys made any money with the price of their bid... maybe they'll run back to commercial land with their tail between their legs... either that or their pockets are depp enough to learn and they'll become more formidable competition based on knowledge instead of a trouser dropping price.

Ahhh... I love this biz. Average 80+ hours a week. Last day off was April 9th... kids don't know who I am anymore... haven't been laid in almost a month because when I do see her I'm too f-----g tired. You'd think I was getting filthy rich but alas... my lead installer makes more than me. I know I've ranted about this before but some areas (mine definitely) are just way too overloaded with these rookie companies that are so freaking low priced. I hear what everyone says about not wanting this type of client or that type of client but around here it is IMPOSSIBLE to find one who isn't exposed to other companies. A friend of mine is building his own house and has had over 20 companies banging on his door to do the prewire... some lower than my "good friend price". All this while my brother in law makes over 250,000 a year shipping seafood to the east coast and a good friend does over a million a year while taking most of the summers off taking the kids to Europe or tooling around in his $750,000 yacht... accomplished by selling sticky labels. Hats off to you guys who are making it but I'm ready to look for what I'm going to do when I grow up. Selling sticky labels doesn't sound as exciting as putting together a home theater but WTF... I'd rather enjoy life away from work!

tomciara
05-31-2005, 02:34 PM
Ahhh... I love this biz. Average 80+ hours a week. Last day off was April 9th... kids don't know who I am anymore...

I've been in audio and video 30 years. Repairs, sales, installations... I'm cautious and don't make snap decisions, so our growth and changes have been more gradual than some. But here are a few things I have learned that I hope you will take as my sincere desire to address what you've said:

1. Your wife and kids are more important than your business. You will not be a hero if they leave you (in an emotional sense, or actually leaving) while you think you are doing the best thing you can do by "providing" for them. Wives and kids need time - that is your true investment in them. "Quality time" is a term adults use to justify their lack of investment in their families, and is a term that children and wives do not understand or relate to.

2. Men often keep doing what they are doing because they: A. Have been doing it a long time. B. Don't know how to do anything else. C. Are afraid to make major changes, especially in their 40's and 50's (I'm 51.) D. Keep thinking that doing the same thing the same way will suddenly result in success (A modern definition of insanity). E. Are skilled tradesmen but unskilled businessmen and will not logically look at their "business" but instead invest more time into their "trade". F. Any combination of the above.

3. You are in business. You must analyze your business. A consistent 80 hour work week with your installer making more than you is a bad business model that needs immediate attention. It's time to start planning a different model.

By the way, the above is not preaching, for just about all the above applied to me at one time or the other.

Don't confuse being busy with being profitable, successful, or building for the future.

Most times, being very busy and not making as much as your help with twice as many hours logged as they have means you are doing the wrong types of jobs, bidding them wrong, or you do not have the correct hourly rate.

Our trade organization did some cost of doing business studies in the 80's that were very good. I'd recommend you look into truly knowing your costs. When you know your true costs, you know what your hourly rate HAS to be. That rate is not based on what the other guys are charging, but based on your fixed and variable overhead, plus a certain percentage of the cost of your truck and tools (if you had that money in stocks or a CD, they would grow a percentage there - your investment in your tools, fixtures, and vehicles must have this as well), plus the money you need to make in a 40 to 50 hour work week.

Once you come up with an hourly rate, you bid your projects accordingly. "But I'll lose half my business overnight!!" GOOD, you will be back to 40 hours and make the same money you are making now! "But I can't keep my installer busy with half the business!!" Is it possible that with what you should be charging, you WILL have less business, and could use a kid to help you pull wires and do basic things, PART TIME, on call, etc?

The number of companies going out of business for charging TOO MUCH is absolutely DWARFED by the number of companies going out of business who charged too little, usually what they though "sounded like a good hourly rate."

When our service company went to a cost of doing business model instead of a "that sounds like enough" model in the late 70's, our labor rate doubled from Saturday when we went home to Monday when we opened up. We did have less work, BUT NOT MUCH. We instantly weeded out many of the customers which should not have been our customers in the first place. Plus, we actually made a good wage.

Later, our service based business was on a decline that started in the early 90's. Lotsa reasons for it, but being one of the kinds of men that I described above, I was slow to abandon what I felt was the foundation of our business. Made some MAJOR changes. Long story short, I'm doing much less of the work I was doing and making a better living now. I should have made those changes a minimum of two to three years before.

Business changes constantly; it completely rolls over periodically to where you will have to abandon some of your cash cows of a short time before; you have to take a hard look at it and be courageous enough to change when LOGIC says to do so and not be so EMOTIONAL about keeping things just the way they are.

Finally, I am writing this as a family man (wife plus 6 kids) and so I sincerely hope I can help you to be more of a family man, for that is crucial for us who are in that position. These comments come to you from one who has been there and done that.

If you need some real basic stuff on establishing your hourly rate, let me know and I'll be glad to help. BTW, when you have a realistic hourly rate, you can give some time away and it won't hurt you. There is some wiggle room. When every check I had coming in went straight to the bill paying heap, losing an hour of billable time just added to my anxiety.

I realize I have somewhat hijacked the thread so I apologize for that.

Best wishes to you and I hope you have the courage to step back and start looking again at your business. It is possible that your competition is so thick that you need to do something else. But, I believe with your skill and referrals, you can succeed and have a life.

avdude
05-31-2005, 10:56 PM
ohhhhhhh yikers!

Gary
05-31-2005, 11:02 PM
ohhhhhhh yikers!

We had been wandering if you were still alive.

rhm9
06-01-2005, 12:03 AM
Gary... I liked your baby pic more.

Tom... Thanks a lot... I fully agree with everything you've said. We've been slammed and I'm the one that jumps in to get things finished. My business partner is in full blown midlife crisis... left the wife... got a new do, new clothes... bought a motorcycle... totaled it... spends more time in the bar than at work... Yes I know what the answer is here... let me just say that there is a light at the end of the tunnel and I can say no more right now

AVDUDE.... Where the F--K haveyou been? e-mail is the same... send one!