PDA

View Full Version : So are there any good classes at CEDIA



vette84
05-30-2005, 11:41 AM
We're hitting the expo again this year. Last year I took some classes and had very mixed feelings. So you long time vets, are there any classes that are truly worthwhile? I'm thinking more in the business/design/project management side, as most all their tech classes are worthless, unless someone knows of a diamond in the rough.

Gary
05-30-2005, 12:17 PM
I base a lot of class decisions on who the instructor is, if you took classes last year that were good, look for other classes that instructor teaches that might interest you.

Here is my "what's good list"

Eric Johnson for almost anything
Bill Whitlock for ground loops
Joel Siver for video calibration
Chris Kangis for systems integration
Robert Ridenour for anything (but I think they dropped his great class on user manuals)
David Tkachuk for Visio
If your looking for business related stuff take everything you can by Randy Sternes, he's the man
Rob Gerhert for sales/design stuff
Ira Freidman for business, total genus

Woody
05-30-2005, 01:07 PM
Gary

what is your thoughts on Anthony Grimani?

Mike

Gary
05-30-2005, 01:26 PM
Gary

what is your thoughts on Anthony Grimani?

Mike

Don't know anything about him, but it would be great if some others could chime in on both good and bad classes and teachers at CEDIA.

avdude
06-04-2005, 11:36 AM
CEDIA has shifted to a university style educational approach.

Classes you'll take in the EST Tract this year forward are credit based, and count not only toward your certification as a company, but are also going to be legitimate college credit type courses.

None of the classes will have instructors listed in the catalog...only the seminars (no credit, but fun as hell, and taught specifically because of their presentors)

There are many classes, that you'll want to take (and need to take) to become a CEDIA Certified Installer under the new system...

you can find more about it here http://www.cedia.net/education/

Gary
06-04-2005, 01:51 PM
CEDIA has shifted to a university style educational approach.

Classes you'll take in the EST Tract this year forward are credit based, and count not only toward your certification as a company, but are also going to be legitimate college credit type courses.

None of the classes will have instructors listed in the catalog...only the seminars (no credit, but fun as hell, and taught specifically because of their presentors)

There are many classes, that you'll want to take (and need to take) to become a CEDIA Certified Installer under the new system...

you can find more about it here http://www.cedia.net/education/


I have know idea what this means "university style educational" but I do know that most real colleges don't keep the name of the "professor" a secret.

avdude
06-04-2005, 05:43 PM
I have know idea what this means "university style educational" but I do know that most real colleges don't keep the name of the "professor" a secret.

The reason CEDIA isn't publishing all instructors names is two-fold, and simple.

1- It does not matter, nor should it ever (doesn't matter at a university either, and often times, colleges and universities don't publish instructor names either!) WHO is teaching a core curriculum, neccesary to advance and get your degree type class. Many colleges and universities have multiple instructors for a given class...you need the class? Yes! Doesn't matter WHO the instructor is...

2- CEDIA instructors, with the exception of the seminar speakers (Grimani, Silver, etc...) are VOLUNTEERS, with the ability to teach many different classes. Some instructors teach several different classes (I will be teaching three different classes, one technician, one business and one project management) and may have to cover a class, or change a class, etc... CEDIA at this time just doesn't want people taking classes based on instructors, but based on the content in them. A perfect example would be Frank White. He's still teaching several classes for me. But the CORE EST RF class, may be taught by him, or anyone else, because it's a set curriculum...

I know there is more angst than happiness about CEDIA, but do some research, and give the new rollout two years....you'll see! Hopefully you'll all be on board, and be the certified, degreed installers and companies, because of it.

AHEM
06-04-2005, 10:25 PM
If the classes are taught by volunteers then why do they cost so damn much?

It seems like many of the instructers use the opportunity to advance their wares or to push their companies.

Where does that leave guys like yourself who have nothing to gain while other instructors have much to gain?

AudibleSolutions
06-04-2005, 10:27 PM
I don't know what college you attended but even in Grad school you knew who your teachers were. In undergraduate courses I would like to see a major university that does not make list the professor teaching a course. That includes survey cources. Might be different on the BS side but on the BA side you always new who taught which courses. Why might that be? Because some teachers are better than others and word is passed around.

Now why would CEDIA not do the same? Perhaps it's because some courses would be sparsely attended were it taught be X and the education committee I suspect is aware of it. If individual A were scheduled to teach that course and he suddenly failed to appear what would happen? One would have the right I suppose to get its money back but given the FACT that CEDIA never returns money is unlawfully takes ( as in the case where I signed up on line and their system malfucntioned but they billed both of my Credit cards and each time I requested a refund they were " too busy." As if I have the time to get after them for 75 dollars. )

But continue to blow smoke up the rears of as many folks as you can. If you say some thing often enough it becomes true, no?

What I find even more facinating is the idea that CEDIA is offering university courses. Hey guys! If having an engineering degree was really a necessity think I might actually go to a REAL UNIVERSITY and obtain that degree? This is so much bull....... But hey, what strange times these are. Victory in Iraq was declaired but more of our troops have died since that declaration then during the supposed war. Taxes shift from those most able to pay to those least while more jobs move overseas. Yet I read consistantly that our economy has never been better. We have a "Conservative," Republican administration who campaigned for smaller govenment who has spent more money than any Democratic "Liberal" administration has in the history of this nation but even though they precided over only the third time in our history as a nation when we were attacked here people believe we are more safe than ever. But if anyone posts a list of the names of soldiers who are dead they are unpatriotic. Syria is the real enemy in the Middle East yet it is our friends, the Saudies who are supplying the bulk of the suicide bombers in Iraq. Truth or fairness in advertising? Not when there is money to be made.

I must be too F***ing stupid and my poor clients should have hired you instead of me. After all you have all that certification and what do I have? What might I offer or bring to the table? Welcome to the new America. Go get 'um Dude. Prove we are all suckers. Don't even bother to blow a kiss while you help to introduce each of us into a new form of sexuality. You must be bursting with pride. I know I would be.

Alan

AHEM
06-04-2005, 10:58 PM
Alan, you must have missed the great news yesterday that 76,000 new jobs were created in May. Of course, there's a net loss in manufacturing jobs, but after all, this is the new "world economy."

Would you like fries with that order?

avdude
06-04-2005, 10:58 PM
Alan,

I have never met you, but would like to.

At least that way, I would know the face that goes with the mouth (and mound) of insults that are hurtled my way from you in that last post.

I admire your grit and determination, and I understand (and agree) with some of your points above.

I would never however, take a personal shot, moreover MULTIPLE personal shots, at someone I'd never met face to face, unless he were clearly a complete idiot (wesley, NDBEER, etc...).

You are not, so I won't. I am not, so please don't.

We can agree to disagree, but back the f^&k off...

One of the things that DOES make our country great, is the ability to freely express our opinions...which we've both done here. HOWEVER, one of the things that sucks about our country is that we've gotten so comfortable hiding behinds our monitors and keyboards that it has become easy to say whatever we want, whenever we want, without any regard for how someone else reading th post might take the response or input. I would venture that you are a person who would (and there are few of these people left) say the same things to someone's face. I respect the hell outta that, but please extend the courtesy.

I have put ALOT of my time into CEDIA in the past (and you have to, you've stated this many times)

I feel positive about my past and future experiences, and I've expressed those thoughts. You've felt negatively, and expressed those, but just because you're scorned, bitter, pissed or whatever, don't take it out on someone with a different point of view.

I have admired, and learned, from MANY MANY MANY of your posts, but I have never attacked you personally. I would ask the same in return (at least the personal attack part)

Thanks,

AHEM
06-04-2005, 11:16 PM
I didn't get interpret that as a personal attack at all. When Alan said the "blow smoke" quote, I understood that as a generalized critique of CEDIA.

avdude
06-04-2005, 11:21 PM
Ahem,

How would you interpret this?

"I must be too F***ing stupid and my poor clients should have hired you instead of me. After all you have all that certification and what do I have? What might I offer or bring to the table? Welcome to the new America. Go get 'um Dude. Prove we are all suckers. Don't even bother to blow a kiss while you help to introduce each of us into a new form of sexuality. You must be bursting with pride. I know I would be. "

Guess maybe that's another general stab, but again, lack of inflection and tone when typed word hits the screen leaves ALLOT to personal interpretation, yes-no?

AHEM
06-04-2005, 11:29 PM
I just noticed that "Dude" was capitalized. On first and second reads, I interpreted that to mean the general "dude" (lower case) as in a generalization of anyone who's part of a specific group.

Maybe Alan would like to clarify this?

Also, you never answered my question regarding why you teach for free while others teach to advertise.

AudibleSolutions
06-05-2005, 01:23 AM
I was on one committee once, only once and for one year's CEDIA. I would hardly claim I have put in the same effort as AV DUDE. That experience provided a glimpse behind the scenes and from that I learned a lot of things. 1. I hated the two girls assigned to "run" that committee. Sitting at the banquet with the rest of the staff left a different impression of those over worked, very sweet crew. And I also understood that the girls assigned to that committee had alterior motives in so far as they had their work schedule in mind. But hey, how many of us put in 80-100 hour weeks every week so I was hardly sympathetic to their one month ( or is it just one week ) of pressure and long hours.

Dude, I have a lot of respect for you and if I were hiring a firm I would certainly consider any company you worked for as you are competant and smart. Hopefully your competance would also trickle down to the guys actually doing the work but that is a problem any of us who own businesses have. I do have a problem with your proselytizing ( yes, I looked up the spelling ) for this horrid policy that only favors the rich and big in this industry. I have long noted the desire to turn the residential industry into the commercial industry but they are such different animals. The money is so much larger in gross terms even if the profits on equipment so much smaller. The equipment is so much better built and controllability is not an issue. Consultants rule and their specifications determine who can bid and under what conditions. A line item for CAD is expected and not quibbled about.

Now move to consumer AV. Big box discounters and Internet sales make even the paltry profit margins in commercial seem extravegant ( no I did not look up the spelling ). Only control systems retain their profitabilitiy but they introduce a whole other kettle of fish which I am sure you are aware so those seemingly large hoped for gross profits turn out not to be chimerical when the net is finally computed. No standards for anything. Protocol? What's a protocol? Not even like the computer world where the standard is at least paid hommage as it is ignored ( ever wonder why not all USB drives cannot be used on a TPMC10? )

At least it is expected that a job be EQ'ed in commercial. No one would quibble if 300MHz switchers were used. And who would not love a job with a .5 million price tax and a 15-20 per cent gross profit. Think I might be able to pay for training? Might I be able to hire engineers and electronics techs? Hey I could pay for a secretary ( sorry, assistant ) to answer my phone, place orders and see that RMAs actually get shipped back. I might also get my 75 bucks (or was it 300 back as she would have the same time to waste as those beaurocrates at CEDIA. I need to spend my time making systems work or at least pursuading folks that when they give me money to work on their multi million dollar homes that the system will work. Take this business where any store can join CEDIA just because they were once Audio salons. Reps think they are the cat's meow ( looked it up ) as they have a "real" show room yet having worked for them I can testify that all they have is salesmenship and high priced real estate. Even when they have the installation talent they never make use of it for reasons that are immaterial to this discussion but do suggest that neurotic behavior and ownership of an AV business are strongly corrolated. And which newbe cannot obtain a resale ID and partake in the joys of this business further cutting into the already smaller pie.

In the commercial world the job specification demands at least one ICIA certified tech on staff. In the residential world it's often someone with 2 year's experience installing wire and recessed speakers who obtains a tax id and will provide the lowest bid. He may or may not have liability insurance and the 500 dollars for CEDIA membership. I was at the first CEDIA management conference where the consultants suggested placing a CEDIA logo on one's truck would convey brand indentity in terms of quality. Like way cool, I thought. 'cept it did not and I suspect it never will convery quality. Any of that brilliant marketing brain power in CEDIA HQ ever conduct a study to see if the public has ever heard of CEDIA? Why the hell should CEDIA care as long as it runs a successful trade show? CEDIA cannot even get its member manufactueres to produce products we can actually control!!! As systems become more plug and play and require software skills let's see if we can force our membership to pay for training no longer needed to make the typical systems installed work? Hey, what's a volage divider? How is induction related to capacitance in a AC circuit? How about a dc circuit. Let's put a trick question on the test just like our old chemistry professors did and see if anyone knows how to calculate the resistor value required to compensate for the hysteresis in an analog voltage connected to a DI/O port ( looked up the spelling)? These are skills that are useless but ones that business with cash flow and man power can take advantage.

I am my company's saleman. I also am its progammer, systems designer and chief tech. Do I have employees. I sure pay enough in FICA to prove I do. I alrady work too many hours and spend too much time from my two girls ( I am just not as adept as Gary at sizing photos and placing them in my avitar ). Media Systems has the man power and cash flow to permit Mitchel Klein to push his agenda at CEDIA ( Oops, bad example. ) The large and very profitable audio salons in NY can easily pay someone on their staff to take the over priced courses and exams. The Audio Commands and AVS of the world also have the cash and man power to spare. How many Crestron CAIPs hire non certified programers for their systems? Who does not? The small outfit who makes 1 million or less. The guys like me who gain zip from this certification process save to feel that someone at least ought to have paid for the Crisco before shoving their fist all the way up.

Frank White, when he worked for Channel Plus, used to admonish everyone attending his and other classes that they were there to MAKE MONEY not to just to learn. How does this make my business any more profitable? Does it make my business any less suseptable to union arguments lobbying legislatures to restrict low voltage jobs to them ( again, as if there is a relationship between high and low voltage--now what is the black wire used for? ) I already purchased an ABD in American History from a prestigious university. Has anyone even bothered to offer a justification for this insanity? Has anyone thought it even remotely wise or politically correct to suggest the rational for this policy? Of course not as it is put foreware by the largest contracting companies as a wedge against their smaller competition.

Grow bigger and try to sell your company to an even larger company is the mantra I keep hearing from CEDIA. Anyone think that courses in marketing might be wiser for the membership who are largely technical and do not have degrees in business? No. Let's follow the failed path of the commercial " professional " industry and require certification. Moreover, let's force people to take courses from people unqualified to teach them not in so far as they do not understand them but they CANNOT TEACH. Let's go back to 1996 or so when an engineer from JBL taught the ground loop course and taught vector analysis to prove eddy currents flowed in only the direction from send to receive path. Or the following year when an EE consultant from the Bay area suggested that you run a star ground. When I suggested that a lowly AV contractor might have a hard time placing that on its proposal for the 14th floor of a NYC apartment ( adding about 14k to the bid ) he conceded I might have a point.

Or let's let every manufacturer teach a course ( for free air fare and a room--we know how hard those downtown hotel rooms are to come by ) whereby we get to pay for their infomercial. Only Bill Whitlock has the honor ( don't let it be said that I dislike all Conservative Republicans. If more Republicans were as honorable and decent as Bill we would never be in Iraq and Osoma would already have been caught, tried and executed. ) not to do that. When I suggested he begin his two hour class by informing everyone that isolation transformers were the way to deal with ground loops he told me CEDIA had a policy against advertaising by those teaching classes I had to laugh. The fact is he spent two mind numbing hours proving that point only by the time he said QED every mind in the class had cried uncle and hadn't the strength left to grasp the point.

If this foolish policy is to be pursued I think it provident to suggest who the teacher will be and if he has any abilities to actually teach. When I was at Columbia Richard Hoffsteader though dead was still a legend. He was the envy of all professional historians as in the 60s and 70s his history books became best sellers and were read by non professionals. He was reputed to be the absolutely worst teacher ever to lean a college class. But he wrote lots of seminal ( and readable ) books. Books still used today in many American History courses.

We can certainly agree to disagree but in your case you are pursuing a policy inimical to the interests of most members. It provides them with little benefit for their investment and does not reward them for any past efforts in the association. Yet it is expensive so leads one to the conclusion that money is behind it for CEDIA. It is time consuming so it suggests that large contracting firms are pursuing their agenda with respect to smaller firms. And it comes about with arrogant e-mails from on high as if the Lord again spoke to to Moses on Saini, proclaiming a new policy regarding membership. So I now must pass a test to remain a member. I would love to see the minutes when this policy was approved. Money for CEDIA. Help for the big boys against the smaller firms. A useless certification process ( in terms of finacial gain ). I already paid for one useless education ( in terms of a career ) but at least I garnered a large vocabulary and read most of the great books. Why would I wish to repeat the process of educating myself without any financial benefit? At the very least do you not think some justification for this policy is owed the membership?

I am famous for my mouth. If I could find a picture with a mouth that would be my avitar. I am always surprised how many actually know me form training couses over the years but considering how mouthy I am at training and Dave Silberstein's tendancy to use me as an example perhaps I should not be. I do think you are an honorable man. I do not think you intend to do harm to the membership. While I may certainly be wrong in my future pronostigations I do think basic politeness requres an explanation for this policy. Hey, I do not really drink. I spend too much time yakking for sufficient beers to reach my mouth to get drunk but I'll buy the first few rounds, even if I am still nursing my original beer. But I do still need to make a hotel reservation. One thing is sure. I will be at one of the air port hotels. I probably will not take any courses save those from manufacturers. And if you need networking or serial protocols explained I will happily provide you that info.

Alan

avdude
06-05-2005, 01:23 AM
MOST of the teachers now will be teaching for free... the classes are core curriculum...

The seminars (such as Silver's, Grimani'a, Hershcelman's, etc...) are by consultants...you pay more to go to them, and they give a little more for the privilege of some advertisements.

The new class lineup, and the rules CEDIA has established, don't allow for any advertising in a classroom setting now...to prove this point, you will see educational deans (myself and Richard Reynolds in the EST curriculum) in most of the classes. The instructors know this, and they know that if they mention Crestron, they need to mention AMX, or if they mention Liberty, they should mention Belden, etc...there will be extensive policing to that end.

All the content has been re-developed with subject matter experts both in and out of the industry, depending on the class being presented. Then, after the classes are developed, they are sent to a university writing house to be developed into a formal presentation. THAT presentation is then given to the instructors, and they have no allowance to change the content. This system going into place is a nationally accredited program, and when complete, it WILL be like going to a "REAL" University to get a degree in residential audio/video/automation design and installation. As will the REAL diploma and certs at the end.

In the mean time, if you're asking why I personally teach, and volunteer my time, it's because I enjoy it. I want others to know what I know, and I want to learn all I can from everyone in any situation I find myself in.

I am also a reserve (volunteer) deputy sheriff and a volunteer fire-fighter, as well as full fledged Paramedic...It took alot of money, and years of training to be allowed to do these things, and I do them beacuse I enjoy them, and because I want to give something back to those that have given so much to me. I feel EAXACTLY the same way about AV, and CEDIA is my way of giving something back for all that knowledge many people here, on RC, and AVS Forum, along with my employers, and fellow colleauges, have given me.

ok?

AudibleSolutions
06-05-2005, 02:33 AM
It's 230am in NY. I have not seen either of my two girls in almost 2 days.
Wednesday I still throught it was Tuesday due to the long weekend and almost forgot the job meeting a firm that hires me as a programmer asked me to attend. Instead of the sheduled job I went back and forth from NY to LI. Thrusday I had an emergancy in Alpine where a ML500 did not work. They tend to do that after 200 pounds of free weights fall on them. Friday my schedule became uprooted due to a Crestron 300w power supply that locked up in Katonah, NY despite the sine wave regeneration UPSs and surge protection in place. The job I was scheduled to program that Friday did not begin till 6:30 ( 1 hour to cross the GW Bridge ) and I worked there till 9:00pm Friday so I missed enjoying the sabbath meal with my family. Saturday I finished programming that system and made it to a social engagement by 9:00pm, only 3 hours late; a record of sorts for me in so far as I actually made to events with my family in one week, albeit late each time.

Tomorrow my girls will be on a float in a parade but I will be fixing a computer problem a client has which I have been too busy to get to until now. But it's 2:30am and I am still writing on this chat room. Not even in front of the tube. I missed Detroit's undressing of Miami, have not even had the opportunity to look at the programs I time shifted on my Replay DVR so if I am less than polite I hope you will be Christian about it and turn the other cheek.

I apologize if I was too graphic in my language. I really did not want to be personally insulting. I do think an explanation for this policy change would be a good thing. An AA in engineering must be a good thing. I only wish I could see how it would benefit my business plan. Will it help me to program my Crestron systems? Will it make installing satellite systems any easier? Might I learn how to calibrate a display? How about EQ a room? Will I learn how to network? Anythink about the Win32 folder in my computer? Will there be any marketable skill I can garner financial benefit from?

I am glad the core courses will be monitored. I could care less how often Crestron or AMX is mentioned only I hate it when the guy from Lantronics teaches some course on IP protocols and spends 60 per cent of that time pushing his gear. He may mention his competitors but damned sure he will spend most of his time with his product. Or When the RF theory course is really a informercial for Channel Plus. Or Eric Johnson, who is a terrific speaker and instructor, but who never fails to work in the compnay he is working for into his lectures on what ever course he is teaching. Or the course on serial protocols I took a few years back where the gentleman teaching did cover lots of useful material ( save truly exlaining what made one protocol good an other bad and more importantly how to read the protocol so as to figure out the syntax. ) He did however mention countless times that he owned an integration company that was a rival to AMX and Crestron and if any of us had any jobs we might wish to partner up with him and his firm.

All of these courses provided lots of useful information. They just took the path of here are the problems you will find and here are the products my company provides to solve them. Anyone going to sit in on all of the courses or just the core courses to make sure the problem of informercials is dealt with? Elective courses? How can I take Mr. Grimani to task if he inferrs that something must be wrong with a Krell amp if it could not meet THX's specifications? What does it say about those specs when the company building the best amps in the world, amps that can drive a dead short cannot meet the artificial requirements of a marketing campaign. And I am certain that if Silver mentions Sencore he will surely mention their competitors. And your buddy THON will suddenly become a supporter of Ralph Nader. Here it is I thought you were in this business and like everyone else you were over worked and undercompensated given the amount of time you had to put in making these systems work. I am envious that you actually find the time to volunteer. Here I am on Long Island, where the best Lacrosse players are found I cannot even volunteer to be an assistant to the assisant coach. Hell, I can't even find the time to see my daughter dance at her recital.

God bless and mia culpa for my exagerated and inflated language. Still I think making tech certification a condition of membership akin to extortion. Knowledge is good. I suppose it does not have to be financially justifiable.

Alan

Brijaws
06-05-2005, 07:03 AM
What aggravates me the most is that as Avdude says - These instructors are not getting paid - And you know that Cedia is wacking the manufacturer to be in there program as well as a member. But they charge (and over charge) for anything and everything that has to do with their organization. You get nothing for free. You would think that being a member would give you something. Every time I read about Cedia or get something in the mail it’s about Price Increases, or new curriculum that forces you to spend more money in the program.

I hate It.!

Wheres all the money go? Do they every post about there spendings and costs/budget?

AudibleSolutions
06-05-2005, 10:54 AM
Dude has made one comment which is get involved and change things. I am curious how he imagines one would do that? It is not by chance that those volunteers who give most tend to come from the largest companies as only they have the infrastructure to support such involvement. But given that CEDIA is "captured" by those large firms I wonder how he would advise those of us unhappy with its direction to alter it? I'll note this from my experience on a Coop Board. It is so easy to have your views coopted as who wishes to be seen as a jackass and trouble maker. I too like to be liked so I wonder what one is to do if one believes it is all a batch of hooey.

I have a buddy who is chairmen on one of the committees whose name I will not post on a public forum. ( I will embarrass myself but not others without first securing their permission. ) who tells me that due to the politics this will be his last year chairing a committee. He enjoys it but cannot deal with the grief. I cannot go into any more details publicly.

Think CEDIA cares if each of us participating on this site would cease being members? I would love to know the reason one cannot offer a free course any longer? Labor Saving Devices used to offer such a course and straight from the horse's mouth would continue to offer a free class ( where I was made the but of many of the jokes yet it was someone else who took umbridge--and he did not even know me. ) were it permitted.

I would offer a free class --I'd happily pay for my own room and flight. But this would not be permitted. Why is this? I may not have much useful information to share but Labor Saving Devices? I always thought his info on runninng wire and home building techniques was important and useful. Only now it costs for this info and he gets none of the money.
Anyone know how much we are paying the director of CEDIA as CEO? I am certain she'll be sad to see this mouth disappear from CEDIA. Only Dave Silberstein will have a problem as he will need to find someone esle to make the but of his jokes and lighten his sales presentations.

Alan

Matt
06-05-2005, 07:10 PM
Get this thread back on track, or maybe start you own thread why you think it (Cedia) sucks so those intersted can go there.

AHEM
06-05-2005, 10:11 PM
Back on track? How did it lose track?

The topic is about CEDIA classes. Aside from having to straighten out a few comments that were taken personally, how is it off track?

Better yet, aside from monitoring the subject matter, do you have anything to add to the topic?

Gary
06-06-2005, 12:07 AM
What aggravates me the most is that as Avdude says - These instructors are not getting paid - And you know that Cedia is wacking the manufacturer to be in there program as well as a member. But they charge (and over charge) for anything and everything that has to do with their organization. You get nothing for free. You would think that being a member would give you something. Every time I read about Cedia or get something in the mail it’s about Price Increases, or new curriculum that forces you to spend more money in the program.

I hate It.!

Wheres all the money go? Do they every post about there spendings and costs/budget?

I found this in about 12 seconds on there site.

http://www.cedia.net/press_media/CEDIA_AR_2004.pdf

Matt
06-06-2005, 10:13 AM
Back on track? How did it lose track?

The topic is about CEDIA classes. Aside from having to straighten out a few comments that were taken personally, how is it off track?

Better yet, aside from monitoring the subject matter, do you have anything to add to the topic?

Whatever. I am not monitoring the subject matter I was interested in the thread title and read it (Are there any good classes at Cedia this year).
And if I had something to add to the subject I would, but since I don't I am here to read comments and ask questions. However the mudslinging got old.

2ndRick
07-15-2005, 12:50 PM
Back to the original question...

The Tony Grimani classes are usually great, he was/is the man that created and teaches the THX Dealer Certification curriculum as well.

For those interested in acoustics and noise control, this is a good Expo.
There will be a demo with identically sized rooms with identical components, one treated, one not treated.

Also, Grimani, Steve Haas, and others are teaching $95 classes, so you don't have to pop for the expensive all day classes unless you want to... ($599 for 9 hours of Grimani, or $1,200 for a 12 hour Russ Herschelmann class)

In the interests of advancing the company and becoming more professional, I am signing up for a few of the PMI based project management classes to see how I can become more efficient and organized. Since they are core curriculum classes, they are only $49 ea.

AHEM
07-16-2005, 01:16 AM
Also, Grimani, Steve Haas, and others are teaching $95 classes, so you don't have to pop for the expensive all day classes unless you want to... ($599 for 9 hours of Grimani, or $1,200 for a 12 hour Russ Herschelmann class)
[/quote]

Will Russ be covering how to build your own screen using a white sheet and leftover lumber?

mr2channel
07-16-2005, 10:51 AM
Also, Grimani, Steve Haas, and others are teaching $95 classes, so you don't have to pop for the expensive all day classes unless you want to... ($599 for 9 hours of Grimani, or $1,200 for a 12 hour Russ Herschelmann class)


Will Russ be covering how to build your own screen using a white sheet and leftover lumber?[/quote]

good one :lol: I guess you caught his DIY segment, what a hoot! Thats the way to boost that professional integrator image! Teach the public you can have a world class theater with a HTIB and a sheet!, all in the comfort of your own bedroom.

AudibleSolutions
07-16-2005, 02:28 PM
I have not read all of the posts in this thread but reading 2nd Ricks makes me wonder ( for myself ) if the only interesting classes will be the ones where the information supplied will only be rarely used? How many super theater rooms does anyone do where you actually get to model the room and place everything where you want? How many of us get to determine the dimensions of those theater rooms or get to include accustical control devices? Those of you who take the dangerous automation class ( because it suggests that the tiny bit of information presented is all you need to successfully automate an entire home ) will actually have an opportunity to automate pools, shades, lights, HVAC, security, and such?

Every time I think of signing up for a course I think back to Frank White when he was pushing Channel Plus. "Why are you here?" he began each class. After receiving the numbers reasons he interjected, " to make more money. " Why is it that the most interesting classes are the ones where we will rarely use the information or not be able to use that information?

I don't know if New York Magazine makes it out to the Wasteland but anyone reading this weeks edition may wonder if paying 1200 dollars should not at least finish with a happy ending.
Alan

sirroundsound
07-16-2005, 02:34 PM
Maybe the 1200.00's gets you the white sheet and lumber and the HTIB system.

juliejacobson
07-20-2005, 08:33 PM
I have know idea what this means "university style educational" but I do know that most real colleges don't keep the name of the "professor" a secret.

The reason CEDIA isn't publishing all instructors names is two-fold, and simple.

1- It does not matter, nor should it ever (doesn't matter at a university either, and often times, colleges and universities don't publish instructor names either!) WHO is teaching a core curriculum, neccesary to advance and get your degree type class.

Funny, in college I selected my courses FIRST AND FOREMOST based on reputation of the prof. In my eyes, any subject (yes, even anthropology 101) can be interesting and useful and life-changing if taught well. Conversely, a sure way to turn someone off of a subject matter is to teach it poorly.

I'm not saying that CEDIA errs by NOT publishing instructors. Just saying that, when you have the luxury, select your curriculum by the reputation of the teachers. Great examples are given here -- anything taught by Eric Johnson, joel Silver, etc.