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Darren
06-02-2005, 12:31 AM
First let me say I have been reading these forums for about two weeks now, and there is quite a wealth of information shared here. Truly a great site.

I recently started a home theater design and installation business, and am working at getting it off the ground. :roll: :lol: No eye rolling, please.

What I would like is some advice from you concerning training and certification. I realize that CEDIA is pretty much a no-brainer, as far as certification goes. I recently attended the ICIA CTS Level 1 Training in DC. I absorbed a lot of information from that three day course, but found much of it was presented for the Professional/Commericial installer... not the Residential installer like myself.

I have spoken with the fellas at Sencore, having called me just the other day... they were really pressing their 4 day training. I have also been approached by CEDIA concerning their training.

That being said, I am not about to spend thousands of $$$ for poor and inadequite training.

So who do you suggest for training and certification? Any particular classes or programs specifically? Any advice for a new kid on the block?

Darren
06-02-2005, 09:23 AM
Brad,

I have had an interest and experience with A/V for 25 years... just not as an installer and designer. Only recently (5 years) have I had a passion for designing and installing systems. Last year I decided to take that passion to the next level by creating my own company; Cinema At Home. The pictures on my site are my own designs and installations, with the work done by myself.

Alot of guys might be happy with my level experience and dive into any job with the "Hey, I'll figure it out as I go" mentality.

I am not one of those "Blow smoke up your a$$" type of businessmen. I want to feel 100% comfortable with my knowledge and skills....practicing what I preach. Guess that comes from 14 years in the medical field... where a mistake can cost a life.

I will follow your advice and seek out more info here at IP. I have attended several industry training classes... both on-line and classroom settings, always jumping at the chance to take advantage of a learning experience.

Thanks for your reply, Brad!

ejfiii
06-02-2005, 10:28 AM
I would think the best training you could get at this point is in the systems you sell. To me this is crucial and worth 1000 days of CEDIA or someone else's "general' training. Know the products you sell cold by having them in your showroom or house. Have your wife and kids use them and try to break them. Have your neighbors come over and try to use it and break it. Run it in a hot base cabinet without ventilation for a while, see what happens. Put a music server on and playing and see how long it goes without needing a reboot.

I am a small shop and will not be CEDIA cert. Its not valuable for me. The most valuable training I get is watching seasoned installers/contractors work their magic. And personal experience.

So know your products (and dont try to sell everything), know your skills and go get 'em.

DJTommyB
06-15-2005, 08:25 PM
Darren,

Here's a few hints from a fellow newbie, for what they're worth. I recently attended CEDIA Installer I training at ADI in Baltimore, and took and passed the Certification exam. I studied HTI+ at a place in Virginia called Iquest Institute for Technology, and passed the CompTIA HTI+ Certification exam. That one will be useful if yr interested in installing structured wiring and networks, along with the Home Theatres. Otherwise you might not be as interested.

I know ADI has a lot of locations. You shouldn't need to come all the way out here for training. As for HTI, I did have a hard time finding a place to teach me that. You might want to contact Carl Bowman (cbowman@comptia.org), at CompTIA, if you want to track down a trainer.

Either way, I would recommend Helen Heneveld's "HTI+/CEDIA Installer I All-In-One Guide" (ISBN 0-07-223132-7) to aid in your studies.

From the look of yr website, I think you've made a great start! I would, however, rethink some of the fonts. Some of them look cheesy, and they detract from the otherwise slick design.

Best of luck. I'm sure you'll get more good help on this forum.

Cheers,

Tommy B

OEX
06-15-2005, 08:55 PM
For my training that I have spent thousands, HAA was worth the money. ISF was worth the money. I flew to SD to Sencore and learned how to use their gear. This might be benficial if your looking at purchasing calibration equipment. If you are going to buy gear, take Sencore's class so you'll be able to work the new stuff and get basic calibration techniques handled. Then take HAA and ISF. This way you can keep some of the stuff from flying over your head.

This would be a better way to spend some dough instead of CEDIA 1. Anyway you slice it, training is going to cost some serious coin. I would become an 'expert' at the lines you plan to install. The manufacturer can provide some free training in that venue. Don't try to install every brand. It will become much more difficult to become an expert at 6 or 7 electronics lines or 4 remote control lines.

Darren
06-15-2005, 09:22 PM
Excellent recommendations. I will certainly look into these suggestions.

ejfiii
06-16-2005, 07:05 AM
Hey Darren, One of my best friends lives in Olathe. He has been uber-successful in starting, running and managing small businesses over the past 30 years. He now owns a company that does financial management as well as small business consulting. He may be a good local resource for you. If you want his contact info, let me know.

Oh, he also knows all about the business from me and another good friend who owns a CI shop in LA. He has a media room with DLP and integra gear.

And in addition to what I said above and the others after me, I still feel that the best training you can get will be on the job (after the basics of course). Put all the gear you can in your house and your friends homes. Tear them apart and figure out how to run wires. That kind of basic stuff.

Good luck.

tomciara
06-17-2005, 11:58 PM
I don't think this could have been done in the same way 5 or 10 years ago. But along with whatever training you decide on, the OTJ training is worth a mint.

You have to start with some skills and some brand knowledge. Your reputation depends on doing well on the last 2% of the install as well as the first 98%. So you need to have some brands and products you can install and have running at their max capability. Then your reading will take you to new products. Read all you can here and at RC where the pros hang out, and you will be able to get up to speed on new products. Ask lots of questions, and be ready to push your envelope of knowledge a little all the time. Big jumps into areas that are way over your head will lead to lost money and bad customer relations. It's OK to spend some extra time learning a product in the customer's home as long as you: 1) Make sure it ends up being done right; and 2) Be prepared to give some hours away and not charge the client for your learning time. You'll make it up on the next one.

These forums are worth their weight in gold. Through these exchanges I have learned so much, about tricks, about products that perform, and about business in general.

I don't think it could have happened many years ago without the resources we have now.

idodishez
06-25-2005, 06:47 PM
ISF was worth the money. I flew to SD to Sencore and learned how to use their gear. This might be benficial if your looking at purchasing calibration equipment. If you are going to buy gear, take Sencore's class so you'll be able to work the new stuff and get basic calibration techniques handled. Then take HAA and ISF.

I think you're the first one Ive actually heard recommending the Sencore/ISF training. When I first looked into it, it was more of a "extra sale" consideration,than it was calibrating my own sets that I installed. All of my previous work was installing systems purchased at the box stores, and it seemed like calibration would be a good service to offer.

Most everyone I talked to however who HAD gone through it said yes, it was beneficial training, but that it was not as "marketable" as Sencore would lead you to believe, and that there wasnt the ROI that was implied.

From a IP point of view, it has been recommended that I just farm out any calibrations that are needed, as it may not be worth the time and financial (10k w training and equipment) investment required.

Have you been able to profit off the training? does the 10k # sound similar to your experience? Do you use it enough to justify the investment?

For now, I obviously want to properly set up a cleints system, both w video AND audio, but I dont necessarilly want to add another "iron" to the fire.

OEX
06-25-2005, 09:16 PM
Most everyone I talked to however who HAD gone through it said yes, it was beneficial training,

Yes it was benficial

but that it was not as "marketable" as Sencore would lead you to believe, and that there wasnt the ROI that was implied.

ROI? Don't count on it. training and equipment is a big ticket item

From a IP point of view, it has been recommended that I just farm out any calibrations that are needed, as it may not be worth the time and financial (10k w training and equipment) investment required.

In my opinion, the training is valuable. You would be better off with the ISF training and the Avia disc than merely hanging your plasmas on the wall and doing nothing.


Have you been able to profit off the training?

Yes and no. I was able to land a 100k job just because the architect was familiar with calibration. So, there was enought profit in that 1 job to pay for all the gear, training, etc but would I be able to recoup my costs by line item charges? NOPE! I don't even bill for calibration. Its a value added service that comes when you hire me. It helps differenciate me from my competitors.

does the 10k # sound similar to your experience?

I bought an RF meter and sound meter too. 16K in total

Do you use it enough to justify the investment?

Nope but wouldn't want my money back. My video displays look better and my systems sound better too. I have friends who are CI guys and they want me to do their calibrations but I'm not interested. I'm busy enough.

It would have been nice to purchase the gear with a few other guys to help offset the large outlay.

idodishez
06-26-2005, 10:41 AM
Its not that I just want to hang a Plasma on the wall and do nothing, but rather farm it out to a guy who does this all day long.

Id LOVe to have the knowledge, just cant justify the large investment right off the bat until I get more financially stable.

Thanks for all the input.

avophile
06-26-2005, 02:16 PM
With my background as a wanna-be musician and live sound/recording engineer, I always felt weak on video applications, especially back in the day when installing a "real" theater meant getting inside the guts of a big-ass CRT to set it up properly. Nowadays, you can do a theater with a digital display so the barrier to entry in the field is seemingly smaller. If you run the test discs and play with the little color filters you are probably out-performing many installation companies out there. Despite this fact, or because of it, I recommend whole-heartedly getting as much training as you can afford.

I was surprised during the week of ISF, HAA and Frank White RF training that I benefited the most from the HAA sessions. As a result of my prior experience, I was better prepared to immediately understand and process the material. The demonstrations of resolving room mode issues were really impressive and useful, even to someone who had dealt practically with room modes in live sound applications for years. It is crucial to get a handle on acoustical theory if you think you will be one of the select few allowed carte-blanche when designing dedicated theaters. Getting the training and certifications and the ability to credibly sling the lingo will also make it more likely that you will be trusted to do those jobs.

I would recommend the ISF training as well. You are not at all obligated to buy the gear to go to the trainings, and you can learn a lot from the lectures (take really good notes, the hand-outs can be a little cryptic), the hands-on training, and especially through the follow-up research you do after training is done. You can sign up directly with the ISF and HAA, perhaps for a little more than you might pay if you go through Sencore's Jerry P. (God bless him, I'm sure we all wish we had salesmen as charmingly persistent as he, although I am skeptical of the Sencore practice of allowing sales staff to guide new owners on the proper use of test equipment).

The ISF stuff was fascinating and overwhelming, and I am just now beginning to understand much of the material that was presented. More than once, Joel Silver has been compared to David Copperfield, and the historical context he provides and his mastery of all things video never overshadow his belief that we all performers in the entertainment industry. The hands-on video calibration stuff is key but, for me at least, understanding why the process proceeds in the proscribed order has taken more time. It is only now, as I've had the chance to calibrate a few of my own systems and as I'm slogging through the certification test, that I have learned enough of the theory, not only to parrot back the ISF dogmas, but to have more confidence in my own ideas of how to design systems to recreate the film experience.

As for the ROI on becoming a real calibrationist, by far the biggest expense will be the time required to become an expert on a broad array of displays. In addition, when marketing calibration as a stand-alone service, you are likely limiting yourself to a clientèle consisting mainly of tweakos such as those you will find at the AVS forum, a market segment who get little love here at IP. Calibration will more often be an add-on expense to jobs you already sell, and you must be confident enough to charge for that service in your proposals, as you do for design, project management, engineering, etc. It is up to you to get paid for all the work you do, and the ISF training does emphasize how to promote your services effectively.

If you decide to sub out the calibrations out on those jobs where the ultimate in performance is demanded and, more importantly, where the client is willing to pay for the voodoo-mojo of calibration, make time in your schedule to be there while the calibrationist is doing their thing. Be sure to meet someone who is willing and eager to share the knowledge, as the best calibrationists promote the type of recurring service revenues that some think are key to the long-term viability of the CI business, and are happy to explain what they are doing and why it is important.

If you are the type of person who needs to be competent of every aspect of the field (sometimes this is known as a “professional”), start by getting a pattern generator and color analyzer (apparently there are other, less expensive options than Sencore's that will get the job done), and go to school on pieces you sell (make sure you get a nice deposit up front, and beware of getting caught in the constant race of product cycles and price drops). Soon, you will know your best-selling models well enough so it would be unnecessary to sub out the work.

In the ideal world, you will learn the most important lesson of all by following Jerry P.'s example. You will make the best use of your time by specializing in running your business, and selling more profitable and better designed jobs.

OEX
06-26-2005, 03:41 PM
jerry is also my sales rep. i can say this. their stuff isnt cheap but are you? should your clients shop on price only? i have needed help while on the job 3 times in the last 7 months. i made a call and had someone correctly answer my question and help me out. when jerry couldnt answer he got tom on the phone. toms the top tech guy there. THAT IS SERVICE. try to get that somewhere else. they spend as much time on the phone as you need learning how to use there stuff.

flcusat
06-26-2005, 11:11 PM
Jerry Paleshi is my sales rep too. I second OEX opinion; the tech support at Sencore is second to none. I have a great experience with Tom Shulte also in situations where I had to calibrate a display and not having the codes to get into the service menu called Tom and if he didn't have them either; he would call the manufacturer and get back to me with the codes.

Coach
06-27-2005, 09:33 AM
So this whole thread has been about getting the tech/product side of the biz down cold. Which is good advice, but shouldn't Darren be learning how to run a business, too?

My $.02 -- get your product/tech training, but also get some help in setting up your business and installing proven fundamental practices. It is cheaper in the long run that trying to DIY.

My $.02 + $.01 -- I am not talking about your accountant. Most of them know very little about business management, in general, or our biz, in particular. Much better off talking to that consultant in Olathe.