Best In wall Subwoofer for dedicated home theater?

[Nytech Rob]

Ok, im designing a dedicated home theater in a clients home. The room is approx 16x19'. I will be using RBH SI6100 and Si760 with reference drivers for l/c/r and surround/surround rears respectively.

Now since i am going to all this trouble to keep the speakers hidden (accoustically transparent screen), i dont want to have a couple big fat subwoofers laying on the ground. But this is going to be a high end theater and i want to maximize performance.

Is there anything that is currently available that would suit this? I want it to be LOUD, but good sq.

Also since im here, anybody have experience with these rbh's? I'll be powering them with a sherbourne 7/2100A Power amp.

As well, i am probably going to go with a runco rs-1100 projector, and either an smx 2.35:1 120" wide screen, or a stewart filmscreen automask....now is there any reason to go with the automask other than the WOW factor? The projector will just display black bars over the parts of the screen that are not used when playing 16:9? Unfortunately havent used 2.35 yet but would really like to in this instance!

thanks for all your help,

-Rob

[Matt]

James Loudspeaker, Velodyne and Triad all make excellent in wall subs. My personal go to for high power in wall sub is the 210 from James.
http://www.jamesloudspeaker.com/productdet.cfm?page=itemdetail&id=122
I will let someone else comment on the RBH speakers.

Anytime the budget allows, I would use automasking screens. Theres a difference between black and grey bars.

[QQQ]

...now is there any reason to go with the automask other than the WOW factor?
Other than it looking 10 times better and having the viewer totally immersed in the image not to mention the perceived improvement in contrast :)?

[DDeca]

Other than it looking 10 times better and having the viewer totally immersed in the image not to mention the perceived improvement in contrast :)?

He obviously realizes this and IS using a 2.35 system. What he is asking about is should he use a fixed system or AutoScope with a masking screen.

If your client is a big sports or HD fan, then having the AutoScope is a nice feature so he can watch 16:9 unaltered with no black bars. It is the ultimate choice and if the budget is there then it is a great feature to include.
It is about a $16,000 add on with the screen, so it is not for everyone.

The fixed 2.35 is also very cool. If your client watches mostly movies, then the AutoScope may be overkill. The fixed lens is only about a $3000-$6000 add on. The options for watching 16:9 are either watch with the black bars on the sides or watch in the Virtual Cinema mode that will fill the screen. This is my clear favorite. 16:9 programs and 1.85 movies look great as the stretching is barely noticable. There is a great article a few months back in Widescreen review that goes into great detail about this. Email me if you would like a copy.

As far as the in-wall sub, I have had great success with the Reference IN-Wall from Definitive Tech.

[Special-Ed]

since you are going with rbh, which by the way sound awesome, they have some great subwoofers if you are using a speakers behind screen just get a freestading sub behind sreen ad a few rbh inwall or infloor subs from them.

make sure that you have enough depth behind the screen the metal drivers will reflectlight if your not carefull but that is also an easy fix

[chris*s]

If you can swing it, try:

http://sunfire.com/SubRosa.htm

I've heard some excellent things about this item. $2,500 retail I think.

[TonyAngelo]

My personal go to for high power in wall sub is the 210 from James.
http://www.jamesloudspeaker.com/productdet.cfm?page=itemdetail&id=122


I second this.

[Soundsgood]

+1 for the James 210. If you want it to be loud you may need multiple subs which is never a bad idea anyway.

[lowvoltguy]

Gotta give a vote for Boston's SUB10F (and SA-1 amp) ... It's actually an in-floor sub, but can be used in-wall also (If the wall is deep enough) ... Great sub ...

[Nytech Rob]

I like hearing the referals for james. I think what is going to end up going in is a james powerpipe 1000PP, or 1200PP if i can convince ;) . There is a closet and and understair space on either side of the room, but they do not quite line up. So i think with the extra 4 foot pipe i should be able to position the ports (2 on each 1200) to avoid any bass problems.

I think the rbh's are going to serve their purpose pretty well, thanks for the info on the autoscope also...think the fixed screen is going to be enough...cant justify the extra cost for the rare hockey game they are going to watch...im sure they will just want to watch it in 2.35 anyways!

Hey while im at it... have any of you used the audyssey sound equalizer yet? I've heard some pretty glowing reviews

[Matt]

I would not use the powerpipe for that situation. You will get much better SQ from the inwall 110 or 210's, and for tha size room, I would use at least 2 (if not 4).

[billw]

Forgive me for making a comment that is likely to offend you, but I perceive that you have far too many questions to be selling a room/system at this level. Your clients are not lab rats, and their home should not become a sceince project while you attempt to gain experience. Is there not someone local that you could partner with to learn how this is done properly?

I say this because each poorly executed sytem reflects negatively upon our entire industry, not just the CI who "thought" he could handle it.

I apologize if I am way off base.

[Nytech Rob]

Haha, its ok i dont get offended easily. My lack of knowledge is not in the design of the room, but rather in finding the correct speakers. I do not have a showroom so i dont really have the wealth of knowledge that some people on here may. I have also not installed or heard everything so looking for little quirks that people may have picked up.

I am in the research/design stage right now so trying to figure absolutely everything out, dont worry i take this very seriously... im a cedia certified professional designer and have taken the designing a home theater classes as well. That is of course not to say i am some kind of genious, but rather that i am capable of researching new (to me) technologies and making the correct decisions. Oh i'm also an electrical engineering technologist if that makes you feel any better ;)

I would rather ask a lot of questions than not ask any and walk into it blindly.

[DDeca]

One tip I have for any inwall sub is this...

If possible, prewire your sub through several stud spaces. At the time of install, temporarily hook up the sub with a long cable going straight from the rack. Lean your sub up against the wall in front of each stud space that is prewired. Now you can test which location will give you the best bass response before commiting. You can then cut the sub in at the best location. This does work for the Definitive sub as it can be retrofit, it may not work for the subs with bigger in-wall enclosures.

[Briremo]

see these subs in my avatar? Velodyne hidden thunder package...

AWESOME SOUND! Deep Bass.

http://velodyne.com/sc_banner_click.html

[Innovative A/V]

I second the velodyne. very solid sub. I would also say at least 2.

[OEX]

. I would also say at least 2.

Whats on the walls? Stretch fabric?

I'm redoing my room and was thinking 2 might not cut it and 4 might be better. fwiw, ill be doing def tech reference iw

[def90]

Whats on the walls? Stretch fabric?

I'm redoing my room and was thinking 2 might not cut it and 4 might be better. fwiw, ill be doing def tech reference iw

I've worked on theaters with a sub for every speaker... 11 total, 9 subs for LCR, 4 sides 2 rears and 2 subs for LFE..

[Mr Brown]

The new BG in wall subs look good. Different panel/amp set ups for different needs. Big ones are THX Ultra. Not cheap

[Ghost]

I wonder if the original poster ever finished that room in Richmond. It's been 11 months, surely it's done or close to being done by now.
He logged in as little as 2 months ago (still not verified)?

[Kelly]

The new BG in wall subs look good. Different panel/amp set ups for different needs. Big ones are THX Ultra. Not cheap


While I haven't used the R-88Sub, I have used the Z-Sub (moves too much air if anything) & 210i. Both of which were very serious performers.

I can only imagine how well the R-88Sub, & the soon to be released (October)BGX-4850 perform.

I'd definitely recommend a close look at this speaker line for anyone that wants a speaker line that will help ensure a happy client.


BG speakers and a big azz amp will rock your world....:smile:

[cory]

see these subs in my avatar? Velodyne hidden thunder package...

AWESOME SOUND! Deep Bass.

http://velodyne.com/sc_banner_click.html


I am backing this 100% - I know the James line is very good as well, but I have personally used the Velodyne contractor line on a couple jobs and have been very impressed. You can run 4 IC/IF Subs - running 2 sets of In-series wires subs off one amplier - obviously two is better, but this gives you great coverage.

I personally prefer the sound of solid SEALED sub over anything ported or passive. The sunfire is good to, but I perfer the sound of the Velodynes.

I have two recent projects that we simply used the SC1250 and two SC IC/IF Subs (12 ich sealed) Installation was very easy.

On one project we were replacing two DD15's with the two IC/IF's and amp. This is a long story, but the 2 DD15's were orginally installed, sold when home owner died, new home owner wanted them hidden and wasn't wanting to spend any money on the system, just get it sounding decent.
This was a small chruch in San Fran that had been converted to a home. The audio was in the main cathedral room - not set-up for home theater at all, more for music and events, but movies sound okay.
Anyway, I preferred the sound/feeling of the IC/IF than when the DD15's were installed - perhaps b/c they were moutned in the rafters and so the vibrations carried through more and added more feeling to the bass. Don't get me wrong, he easily needed at least 10 of these in there to really fill the air space, but comparing (2) DD15 to the IC/IF in same space.

[mwne2]

We have been custom building our needs for about 5 years. Every need is different so we don't use a set subwoofer.
the smallest one was a 10" in a 3 cu ft mounted in a floor vented thru a wooden floor grille. The Largest is a 2 X 18" in ground sub. It sits in what is basically a plastic stock tank buried in the ground and covered with a Large fiberglass rock. Works very well and is powered by a Crown Amp.
I think we will look at the Velodynes at cedia for a more cookie cutter approach, but you can't beat the profit on a custom subwoofer.

[cory]

mwne2

What drivers are you using?

[mwne2]

it really depends on the application. We used a Stillwater designs car sub in our first one. We drive it with a 900 watt peavey crossed over at 70. We do seem to use a lot of Elemental Designs subs in the projects that have a smaller budget. For the Balls to the wall. We use Maelstroms or Tumults or LMS .

[Innovative A/V]

it is nice to go back and built your own!!! before manufacturers figured out they could mass produce it.

[mwne2]

The other issue with us building our own is we can control the size. It seems like framers can't measure 16" on Center any more. The worst feeling is when you sell a manufactured box and the installer calls and says it doesn't fit in the spot designated. Kinda makes the RED boil up in my face.
BY us building it we know it will fit because we took an accurate measurement or reframed the wall ourselves.

Whats the MSRP on the Velodynes Contractors?

[cory]

Velodyne Contractor Series Pricing:

SC-1250 Amp, (1250RMS, 3000 Peak) = $999 (can run two subs, or more if wired correctly.

Sealed - front firing subs:
SC-15 = $999
SC-12 = $799
SC-10 = $599

SC-IW (in-wall) = $1199 + $99 for eclsoure
SC-IF/IC (in floor/ceiling) = $799 (grill = $75)

Those are the MSRP prices, they also have a new SC-600 line that is similiar to the DLS products but contractor Style, they have SC-600 AMp that is 400 peack & 200rms = $499
SC-600 IF/IC = $499
SC-600InWall = $499 (I belive this used the same drivers as the MicroVee, but has two active and two passive set at an angle to maximize throw distance. I haven't seen or hear the 600 line yet, I'm hoping they will have some at Cedia.

[mwne2]

Hmm , well those prices are pretty good, Might have to look into that for the budget end. I just realized this is a public forum.
better quit while I am ahead.

[Nytech Rob]

Heh sorry I've been busy and have put off sending in my info to get verified. The customer's budget ended up decreasing so we went with a polk audio CSW155 with SWA500 amp. Not bad at all for a decent price. Nice tight bass and the customer's wife was pleased with us keeping all of the speakers in the walls. Went with speakercraft aim cinema 3's for l/c/r and aim cinema dipole 3's for the rears, unfortunately it was already prewired so didnt have a choice to do 7.1. Bi amped the front l/r and was very happy with the result. Not quite the sound of floor standing speakers but this is what the customer wanted and they were very happy with what they got.

Thanks for all of your input and I'll work on getting verified!

-Rob