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AudibleSolutions
07-06-2005, 01:53 PM
Would anyone be interested in a review of a Crestron C2N-TXM. I am almost through playing with one but given that it is only usable with a Crestron system I wonder if anyone is interested in it. Sound quality would be evaluated via a Crestron PAD 8/ McIntosh MC270/ Celestion SL700 cobo. Music would be compared to a C2N-TFM and a Sansui TU 517.
Alan

Gary
07-06-2005, 02:55 PM
Yes,

just_program
07-06-2005, 10:19 PM
I would also like to 'compare notes' with you on this tuner. I am, coincidentally, working with one as I type this. I am having some of the same issues that you are dealing with concerning indirect text on a CT-1000. I do wish this tuner had the ability for on-screen display, as one-way UID's will suffer from a 'limited' amount of control. You would think that at a $1100 price point you would get at least a composite output. 8O

Maybe I am asking too much. What are your thoughts on that aspect of the tuner, Alan?


On a side note, why does every local news broadcast insist on interviewing the least educated person at the scene of a event?

PAAI
07-06-2005, 10:49 PM
I just received my C2N-TXM as well. I have not had a chance to get connected to my AV2 yet. My twins are keeping me busy while the wife works third shift and I don't want to be stuck in the house with the awesome weather we are having.

My First impression is "where's the display"? For a $1K+ piece this could at least have a decent LCD display with scrolling text to show the Address, status, artist, song, firmware, serial without a processor. Mode button with up/ down: There is plenty of room for more face buttons. The signal LED on the back is hilarious, but there are some folks here that may find some extra features for those wires.
I have Sirius now with a Kenwood DTS7000. Yes, that was ergonomically challenged unit too, but the display is great! I hope the programming, sound and control features are good, I have no doubt about the build quality.

Just program-
There is one thing that dumb people know how to do-breed. Sheer numbers my friend. About the only way I can watch the news is with my replay in line.

AudibleSolutions
07-07-2005, 06:50 AM
I am bothered not in the least by the absence of front panel fuctionality. A complete waste of resources in a Crestron system. As for the signal diodes, I think they are a good idea. It made orrienting the antenna much easier. Stick the antenna in place and depending on the colored lights and if they were blinking you knew to orient the radio. You could also use the headphone jack but I never carry headphones and lord knows where my wife has decided my old AKGs belong in the house. There was also the front panel signal level display. All in all, I find the absence of a complicated front panel GUI a plus. The ST-Tune had this but it was a waste--for the poor slob wirting the firmware and for me who installed and programmed it. Given what is available from the touch panel Ido not think having only signal, channel and volume controls from the unit a draw back. Remember, all other units can only or primarily be controlled from the front panel and cannot be automated. They need to have every ounce of control available at the front panel.

That said the abaence of a composite video output is a glaring omission. One could use e-control and use a one way system for selected presets but a Request like solution would have been in order. Facinating that they included a RJ-45 for audio out in addition to S/PDIF and analog audio outputs. I cannot imagine feeding the bipad 8 with this input so it must be included to mate with the commercial media manager skew. Is XM being sold on commercial jobs as a replacement for Muzak?

I solved the problem of indirect text by using a very small font and making the buttons longer. I will need to go to a code solution, locate a space (\x20 ) and output a new string with a carriage return between lines so I can obtain 2 lines of text in place of one. I was able to use sub-pages with a CT-1000 and provide keypad, preset and category control. Obviously, if you have a TPS-4000 and up or a TPMC-10 the additional real estate will make programming the GUI simpler---save with respect to presets. I think these should be buttons and in my mind a button, whether square, round or oval is not 6-12" long. The other facinating tidbit is what info is output to be stored. I stored Opie&Anthony and it showed up as High Voltage which is a sub category. This informaion is taken from the XM data stream but I think if I had written the firmware I might have taken that information from an other part of the stream. I need to look at what local traffic showed up as but it was not local traffic.

I only set my unit up this weekend and though it was supposed to be pre-authorized I needed to have it hit yesterday. I completed my CT-1000 GUI yesterday. I am not done playing with the unit nor have I completely figured out which of the millions of bits of information Crestron makes available is truely essential. Other than the problem with indirect text being saved directly to a button I have not run across any major glitches. Then again the issues of the unit powering down were solved with an additional module checking it's power status. For $1200US you get a pre-engineered solution that makes every possible bit of information from the
XM data stream available for easy display on a touch panel. You also have the option of taking the time data from that steam and using it to sync the clock in your processor. All data stored from the touch panel is stored in the unit not in NVRAM which is an other plus ( especially as I change processors every 3-5 months ).

Alan

AudibleSolutions
07-07-2005, 08:10 AM
Bryn's response to my question regarding dealing with text size led me to look at the macro/TXM interface again. He is correct that there is a parameter in the XM symbol definition that allows you to adjust the lenght of the string going to the macro and thus to the touch panel. I missed that and added the logic for that this morning after posting the response above.

It certainly abridges the text going to the button but there is certainly a problem with the data coming out of the XM data stream. Crestron is taking its information from the channel name definition --which makes perfect sense--but the text there is bizzare. Traffic comes through as "New York" which is meaningless and Oppie&Anthony came through as "High Volacity." Abrdging the string length makes the string even less readable. High Volacity now reads as HVo lxl instead of High Volacity XL.

From the point of an end user this is incomprehensibile. I will need to solve this in code and take the string High Volacity XL and display it as:
High
Volacity XL or
High
VolacityXL

Alan

ssamsal
07-09-2005, 11:49 AM
Hi guys,

Let me respond to this thread on a layout design rather than a technical response. You have hit the nail on the head about dealing with its problems with power control and indirect text management. I have installed about 7 of these in clients homes and also have one in my office and at my house. What I have gotten over is displaying everything this peice has to offer. To make a long story short the feedback you get from this peice allows you to make a really simple put powerful gui. The biggest thing I have noticed is how do you easily negotiate the hundred some odd channels without having to go to a tps -5000. The keypad is useless as is channel up and down. Now I simply give clients the current song, artist and station, a small breakdown of text feedback presets so they can see what is playing on their favorite stations and select it if they wish and a window that is tiered in half having only the station name feedback in the window. This way you can hit guide up or down and negotiate all stations in like three presses. This is all you need for most panels and can do it on one page. The only reason you need a second page is for a broader preset page. This has evolved from 6 months of my wife and kids trying to get from radio disney back to Kiss FM and me trying to find my baseball games. Anyways, hope that helps.

AudibleSolutions
07-09-2005, 01:45 PM
I think I am employing similar feedback on my GUI assuming I have correctly processed the contents of your post. I am proving channel number, channel name, artist name, category name and song name and keypad press display on my GUI. With the exception of the last item we seem to be offering the same information.

However you seem to have hit upon using the Guide and I have not done that. If I have understoond your post you are permitting the user to use XM much like a DSS IRD. Use the guide and navigate through the contents.

I'll try that in a few in my lab.

My complaint with respect to presets was that I think presets are the way to use XM and break up the 100s of channels into usable amount. Hence a way to save names in run time seems important although I could resort to the practice of remotely altering the graphics utility by perodically looking at the stations stored as presets. It would not be hard to write a module that provided this information for my later use.

Alan

ssamsal
07-09-2005, 07:04 PM
User defined presets are aleady there in the module with a two second press and hold. I beleive there are twelve of them in the module. If you want a graphic on the preset, it would be as simple as doing an analog compare on the channel number and than use an animation to trigger the graphic when you trigger the press and hold. I like this idea, but the real benefit to me on the presets is having the song and artist info with the channel. If I were using a graphic this would take up too much space to be functional. Food for thought, have fun experimenting.

Scott

AudibleSolutions
07-10-2005, 09:26 AM
Scott:
You did not understand my post. I do understand how the module works with respect to presets. Hence my complaint that I have to write my own logic to break the text into 2 lines so it could fit on a button.

I am using what I call a "face plate." It's a subpage that is not defined that shows the Indirect text from the stream for Channel Name, current category, current artist, current song and current channel.

My question had to do with how you are mixing the guide data with your preset buttons.

1. What are the panels you are using this GUI? TPS-2000?

2. Are you using long buttons on the order of the ARQ browse page to display the contents of the guide and the preset text?

3. I was not referring to an physicial graphic on the button but to the graphic utility, VT-PROe. My idea is if the text will not fit on the button in the way I wish I could write a bit of code and save the saved text for that button in that module. Later, remotely I could examen that module and hard code the button's text as you might with ARQ--assuming you did not employ the keyboard module and permit the end user to enter his own text on that button ( which I do not ).

4. I am still having trouble visualizing how you are displaying the data from the Guide on a preset button. I modified the Guide data and found on a CT-1000 I needed the entire width of the panel to display the essential data. Navegating through the channels via the guide is not a bad method. I was able to use all 12 lines from the module on the TP. The only problem is that it is very much like the original ARQ interface for the 1000 and if you employ a button over the indirect text ( like in the ARQ GUI ) you wind up with a very thin button. But it works and it is really fast. In one or two instinces the text from the XM stream was too long. I have not decided if I will limit the text length or live with the occasional run on. It does take 3 or 4 presses to navegate through all the channels--which is not all that bad.

While I am still playing--and I have still to hand off the GUI to my in house beta tester ( my wife ) to see if what I think is easy and useful corrusponds with her sense of usability, I am currently in agreement that a keypad is useless with this unit. I don't know yet if I agree that channel up and down or category up and down are completely useless. I found it useful originally to search this way to see what was available but perhaps after initial use it will not be very useful. I still think using presets is the way to go and you will need every preset available. Which is the problem if you need to use large buttons to display the text for what that button will do. Then there is the problem of the XM channel name not always accurately displaying what the channel is. Traffic and weather comes through in NY as New York. Traffic would be the better name and it is on the Artist line. Often the Artist text field has the better data for communicating what channel the button is assigned but unfortunately not in all cases. While this is an XM issue some solution will need to be reached--which is why I suggested above modifying the button name remotely in VT-Pro after the fact as an option to obtain the most clarity for the end user.

I actually violated one of my GUI rules and used sub pages on the CT-1000. I think I will need a few more days, perhaps a week, before I am through playing. I will post screen shots of the GUI in my final review--assuming I can figure out how to do so. I am thinking that a audio review will not be very useful. To what will it be compared? It should be compared to other XM models. It is foolish to compare the C2N-TXM to FM, a CD server, or satellite music. How could you tell the defficiencies between the equipment and the stream? The only true comparison would be to compare it to a Kenwood, Delphi, or Polk. I doubt I am goinig to go out an purchase one just to evaluate sonic quality when no client will choose XM based on sound quality. They will chose it because it's semi commerical free, they have it in their car and like it or because you can display all that channel info on a touch panel.

Alan

ssamsal
07-10-2005, 07:57 PM
Sorry Alan,
I guess I did misread your post. I have not done a gui for the ct-1000, I am posting a screen shot of the simple tps-2000 version I use and a copy of my tpmc10 template so you can see to ends of the spectrum. Hope they help sorry about the confusion.

Scott[/img]

PAAI
07-14-2005, 10:07 PM
I just got the Xm working today. So far so good. I will get it wired to the AVM30/PVA7 this weekend with both Digital and analog connections. Kick back with a C&C and take a listen.

I can see three kind of interfaces so far to create:

1. Keypad and CH up+Down with a 10+ key

2. Rolling text buttons (if the real estate allows) with Page up/down

3. Customers Favorite Channels with up/down

AudibleSolutions
07-14-2005, 11:25 PM
It will be interesting to see what conclusions you reach from playing with the XM. I, to date, only played with a CT-1000 GUI and I will need to get a TPMC10 back in the lab to play with.

I think the keypad and channel up/down are superfluous. My initial thoughts were that presets were the way to go but having played with the Guide I now think it is the best way to go. If I had room I think I would have both presets and guide together but I need to see the GUI on a panel to gage these matters. I still liked scrolling through the categories but the guide provides that information.

The only issue I have not had the time to solve ( as I have been dealing with the boys in Boston ) is how to fix the text stored on to preset buttons.

Alan