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adigitaljohn
02-22-2008, 05:04 AM
I could not find a thread on Life-Ware? One of our builders would like us to look into this.

Any comments out there?

COMediaSys
02-22-2008, 08:52 AM
From my own research, I found that they were 85-90% of the price of a Crestron or AMX system. If I was going to be in that league price-wise, I'd go with the big guys.

Theaterworks
02-22-2008, 09:10 AM
There's been one or more big Lifeware threads here that have discussed this. The consensus is Crestron or AMX is really the better choice.

I attended the first Lifeware class here in Chicago a couple of summers ago. Painful. I hope they've improved since then.

tschulte
02-22-2008, 09:55 AM
Tell the builder he is crazy! He probably went to the International Builders Show and went to their booth.

Pricing structure is similiar to software licensing. Wait, it IS software licensing! You pay per device attached to the MCE! Every door contact ($), every audio zone ($$), every MCE ($$$). In the end you are looking at a price VERY close to Crestron/AMX with half of the functionality. You have to rely on Microsoft products!

I truly believe that Control4 is a much better option/alternative.

COMediaSys
02-22-2008, 06:23 PM
I truly believe that Control4 is a much better option/alternative.

Heretic!




Actually, that was the route I went to get my feet wet in the automation side of things until I was able to bring in the big guys.

adigitaljohn
02-23-2008, 05:25 AM
Would you really suggest C4. We have had bad experiences with this line. Have they really changed within the 12-18 months? Honestly?

tschulte
02-23-2008, 04:24 PM
Well, I can name lots of successful Control4 installs (that we have done, I have seen done, or know installers that have done them), but can't name one Lifeware (successful or not) install. The only ones I know of are the ones advertised by EI/Lifeware.

brandenpro
02-23-2008, 05:47 PM
Look into Homelogic. Below AMX Crestron, above C4. Lifeware is not worth spending the time to look at.

ChrisRichwine
05-07-2008, 12:09 AM
Can you guys explain in more detail why you would stay away from Lifeware? Agreed it's not up to snuff with Crestron but I wouldn't mind a line above the URC/RTI route for control. I admit I know nothing personally about Lifeware but was asked to attend the bootcamp this coming Tuesday...figured I'd at least check it out. If the consensus is "pass" I won't waste my time.

BTW, this is my first post on here...aka tweeterguy on RC. Good to see some of the same names over here!

djnorm
05-07-2008, 04:44 AM
The biggest reason is one word. "Microsoft".

I would say, by all means, go to the boot camp and see for yourself - let us know what you find out...;)

PS Do get verified if you can - there is much more fun behind the curtain...:D

COMediaSys
05-07-2008, 12:06 PM
It's pretty darn clost to the cost of Crestron by the time you're done with it. I also HATE the way they deal with their license: for every zone you add, you have to have a license, which means more money. Everything you add is this way: Lights, thermostats, etc.

Given the cost and the hassle, I'd move towards Crestron or AMX before this. We did Control4 simply because it's a line with much of the same stuff but with easier programming. It's not Crestron but in my market there's notmuch call for that level of automation.

PAAI
05-07-2008, 02:36 PM
I hear they (liftware) are bringing back Jimmy Hendrix from the dead for a Concert at CEDIA. They didn't know what to do with all that investment money.
Then again, I could be wrong.

WhiteVan Lifestyle
08-03-2008, 02:32 AM
It's pretty darn clost to the cost of Crestron by the time you're done with it. I also HATE the way they deal with their license: for every zone you add, you have to have a license, which means more money. Everything you add is this way: Lights, thermostats, etc.

Not true. The license is sold in banks which can be bought to cover nearly any level of automation. A simple system can be very inexpensive and a complex system can get very expensive. There have been many changes to Life/Ware over the last 12 months. If you looked at Life/Ware a year ago you owe it to yourself to take another look. There are so many misconstrued facts about Life/Ware out there that I could get into this for days. I prefer not to so I can only suggest that you get the facts and an understanding of their platform before making a decision based on all of the uneducated posts you have read regarding the product.

COMediaSys
08-03-2008, 08:43 AM
I stand corrected then -3 months later ;)

Explain a bit further then. What do you mean by "banks"?

I would say that any "simple" system would be relatively inexpensive and any complicated system could be expensive regardless of the platform.

WhiteVan Lifestyle
08-03-2008, 02:30 PM
Banks are groups of devices which are bought depending on the expected level of the system. If you buy a bank of 60, you can control 60 devices. If you later need more, you can add a bank of 8, 20,60, etc.
You can purchase LifeWare as a standalone, (no media centers) and you will find it to be relativly inexpensive. As for the platform, It is a Microsoft NTFS platform (XP). What most people dont understand is that it is only a platform and not an entire operating system. Its a method of information transportation and thats it.

jberger
08-03-2008, 08:48 PM
I can honestly say, I'm now completely confused.

I thought lifeware was a MS Media Center based product?

Now media center is just a media provider and it actually runs the core OS on another platform?

WhiteVan Lifestyle
08-03-2008, 09:01 PM
That is correct. Media center is just an extension of Life/Ware and not the controller.

fletch999
09-23-2008, 05:00 PM
Well, I have been told that the license fee for a system I installed (if it would have been a Lifeware controlled system) with approx. 300 'devices' would have been around 40k retail. Without hardware. Just for the software. FYI.

TonyAngelo
09-23-2008, 07:07 PM
Banks are groups of devices which are bought depending on the expected level of the system. If you buy a bank of 60, you can control 60 devices. If you later need more, you can add a bank of 8, 20,60, etc.

This is still a software license model. You buy license's for the number of devices you have. AMX/Crestron/C4/HomeLogic, none of them do this.


You can purchase LifeWare as a standalone, (no media centers) and you will find it to be relativly inexpensive. As for the platform, It is a Microsoft NTFS platform (XP). What most people dont understand is that it is only a platform and not an entire operating system. Its a method of information transportation and thats it.

It still runs on a PC though. Again, AMX/Crestron/C4/HomeLogic have dedicated processors that are built to be processors.

WhiteVan Lifestyle
09-23-2008, 09:24 PM
This is still a software license model. You buy license's for the number of devices you have. AMX/Crestron/C4/HomeLogic, none of them do this.

Agreed!


It still runs on a PC though. Again, AMX/Crestron/C4/HomeLogic have dedicated processors that are built to be processors.

Agreed again.

cams
07-20-2009, 08:18 PM
Well, I have been told that the license fee for a system I installed (if it would have been a Lifeware controlled system) with approx. 300 'devices' would have been around 40k retail. Without hardware. Just for the software. FYI.

I know this post is over a yr old. but i was just checking out lifeware and see on AVAD the pricing for a 500 device system(retail) is way way cheaper then 40k..

Did there pricing come down alot since last yr? Or am i missing something

Just started looking into this today..

to all your lifeware \ C4 guys, how does these systems compare - if at all ?

jberger
07-21-2009, 08:08 AM
AVAD has training classes going on now if you want to learn more.

I looked at them before going C4 and could not make it past the windows requirement that was mentioned at the time. I don't like windows for anything, much less a home automation system.

The licensing plan was confusing and the system didn't have anything that made it standout against the others, except for needing windows. The license model didn't lend itself to quick and easy budgeting and if I was confused, I knew a client or builder would be hopelessly lost.

Lifeware did setup a local company with the line and they have done nothing thus far. When I last talked to someone about it, they said they had dumped tens of thousands of dollars into the line and had not sold one, nor gotten their own implementation to function well enough for a demo. I can't say that is a limitation of lifeware since these guys are not good at fixing printers, much less automation. The sales guy mentioned several times that it was so confusing he could not explain it to a client, and he's a damn good salesguy.

C4's system programs very easily, the model is simple and there is no licensing other than the iPhone interface. If it's a question of C4 or lifeware, then it's no question at all. I'll let the trueblue guys compare it to Crestron.

PAAI
08-02-2012, 07:50 AM
Lifeware has bailed and all their stuff is on ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/e.i.480/m.html?hash=item3a77f27763&item=251120482147&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&rt=nc&_trksid=p4340.l2562

TonyAngelo
08-02-2012, 10:14 AM
Lifeware has bailed and all their stuff is on ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/e.i.480/m.html?hash=item3a77f27763&item=251120482147&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&rt=nc&_trksid=p4340.l2562

Looks like the perfect thing for the long discussed IP booth!

tomciara
08-02-2012, 11:05 AM
Only 5800 lbs. Who is going to store it?

BigPapa
08-02-2012, 11:20 AM
Instead of having the fabled 'amp toss' and the CEDIA Installer Olympics, how about a Life|ware server toss?

I'm just happy to not have to type the stupid fracking pipe (|) any more.