View Full Version : FYI - CQC collateral & webinar
Hey guys. As I'm a DIY'er i'm not sure what Dean has shared with you on the private forums, and now that he has his own subforum here there's some collateral & webinar you may be interested. Not to worry, no charge, purely a pay-it-forward type move. Some of you have helped me here and on other forums, just trying to repay in whatever small part I can.
In an attempt to help my DIY brethren as we don't know squat about HA/HT stuff, I've been holding "Introduction to Home Automation using Elk/CQC" webinars.
This is a recording of the last one (http://www.myhometheaterpc.com/downloads/Intro_To_HA.wmv). Note: You must install the www.gotomeeting.com/codec in order to view it.
The first 30 mins are a walkthrough of the powerpoint, after which I go into a live demo of building stuff using CQC. The agenda is basically:
1) Overview of what I did, why I did it, and how it helped. 5mins
2) CQC Overview & Architecture 5min
2) How to physically hook devices up to an HTPC for control - 5mins
3) How to tell CQC you have devices connected, and use it to easily create and render a screen to control them in realtime - 45mins
4) How to setup ElkRP to monitor your devices 15mins
5) How to use CQC's event manager and the Elk together to perform the following: 15mins
5a) scheduled tasks (i.e., irrigation, turn off all devices at midnight)
5b) triggered tasks (i.e., turn off all devices when you ArmAway the Elk. turn on the light when you open the closet door)
If you're not into watching the 90MB, 90min webinar, this is the pdf file used for the first 30 mins. (http://www.myhometheaterpc.com/downloads/Intro_To_HA.pdf)
There's also a more advanced webinar for those of you interested in some harder stuff. Stuff like "auto-turn on the kitchen touchscreen and show the CCTV screen if the doorbell rings".
I screwed up the recording of the last one, the next one is on 3/29, 8:30am PST. We only typically have 1-2 CI's, it's usually 8+ DIY'ers.
Login details will be posted here by 3/28. (http://www.charmedquark.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=6279) Here's the agenda for that webinar:
8:30am- 8:45am. Introductions, grounding basic concepts.
8:45am- 9:45am: Building Interfaces
9:45am-10:00am: Variables Driver
10:00am-10:30am: Events Engine
10:30am-10:45am: Contingency in case we run late.
I used to have a fully art-based setup, but I've now got so much stuff I had to rip it out. Here's those latest screenshots (http://www.charmedquark.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=2811), although I just realized it's not 100% of them.
So, there it is. Have fun, and know that there are many of us jealous that you are all doing what you love to do. If I could afford my mortgage and kids tuition on what CI's make in NorCal, I wouldn't think twice about joining the club.
- Vivek
I just want to put in a good word for Vivek here, for those of you that do not know him. I know the word "DIY" often raises the blood pressure here, but Vivek is one of the good guys (any Lost fans out there :D?). He is the first to speak up for us when one of the evil :mrgreen: DIY's over at AVS start ranting about how all us CI's are gougers etc. IVB always pops in and points out how many thousands of hours he has invested in his system, and that most DIY do not account for the value of all that time on the part of the CI.
Anyhow, for those interested in playing with CQC, you will find his webinars very useful.
AudibleSolutions
03-28-2008, 04:44 PM
He is a very good guy although one does need to question his choice of lighting control.
Alan
Heh, thanks guys. Although I'm a "Lost" fan too, I'm still not sure which "The Good Guys" side is...
I have to admit that I fault the MainLobby vendor slightly more than the DIY'ers (although they're pretty bad too), cuz he sets expectations that everything can be done in 30 minutes if you use that software package. A vendor should know better than do dumb stuff like that, and assume folks shouldn't count the wiring, architecture design, & equipment selection time. Makes life hard on me as, when folks come to the webinars, I have to unteach them all these bad lessons they've learned. I have to explain why this is infinitely harder, and some folks don't "get it". It is pretty quiet on those webinars when I get to slide 10 in the PDF (http://www.myhometheaterpc.com/downloads/Intro_To_HA.pdf), and tell them they're in for 700-1000 manhours if they're lucky. Good thing I like my day job, and only do this as a stress relief.
And, i'll get someone to install Homeworks hardwired for me one day when I haven't taken such a beating in the market and can afford to remodel my house. It's constantly feeling like it's "just 18-24 months away", like that door at the end of the hallway that you can't ever reach in your nightmares.
Dunno if there's any interest here, but just to close out the loop I recorded today's advanced webinar.
Here's the recording link. (http://www.myhometheaterpc.com/downloads/IE-201_Events-202.wmv) I noticed an odd low buzzing noise in the recording, must have been a little interference on the mic line. Sorry about that, but it's not that noticeable.
Here's the PDF that was used randomly throughout. (http://www.myhometheaterpc.com/downloads/IE-201_Events-202.pdf) It was probably 75% live tutorial, 25% PDF, but this way you have an easier reference sheet than the whole dang 115MB recording.
I'll take another recording when we do this again and hopefully the buzzing will be gone from that one. I'd imagine it would take until late April/early May to garner enough interest to make it worthwhile. Ping me if interested and you haven't seen something.
smoothtlk
04-05-2008, 11:16 AM
Hello IntegrationPros users.
I hate (really) to use my first post here to address IVBs attempt to slam.
IVB, We (Cinemar) have NEVER said it takes 30 minutes to automate a home. That is how you choose to intepret for your own ends. What what we are really saying is that the base software load can take less than 30 minutes to begin get going and start to automate your home.
If you really believed that is what we are saying, you would have said..."Ok, so why don't you come to my home and spend 30 minutes to completely automate everything. That should be about $50 in labor"...imagine what time and money you would have saved. But, you (nor anyone else) believes it only takes 30 minutes.
Now, because I already have this hardware plugged in, this morning I did a completely fresh install on a new server. In 30 minutes I have the following working:
Music Management (it takes J River Media Center longer to index my 50K music collection than any of the steps indicated below)
Movie Management via hard drive for SD and BluRay (including a few sample "movies" to launch)
Weather for my location (including setting up my zip code)
CallerID (using NetCallerID hardware via comport)
DirecTV HD serial connection to view and control the tuner from MainLobby
Connection to an ELK M1 security system (but NOT configuring the system for my particular zones - this takes significantly more time)
Connection to Insteon PLM (including downloading of existing lighting links, but NOT configuring the system for my particular lighting devices - this takes significantly more time)
Connection to my Theater's RS232 projector (but NOT including a custom scene to manage the device - only the ability to turn it on / off on command)
Connection to an AutoPatch matrix switcher via RS232 (but NOT including a custom scene to manage the device, nor the scripts to automate when to switch to what zone)
Downloading and presentation of Horosope dailys
Connection to iPort / iPod (including scene management to control the iPod and see what's playing)
Getting Lyrics of Now playing songs
Connection to RCSThermostat hub to two RCS thermostats via RS485 (but NOT including custom scenes to view status)
Downloading and presentation of a sample stock portfolio (I have to add my particular holdings)
Ability to speak who's calling over the PC sound card output (again, not including the custom logic to switch zones et al to send the output to the correct zone)
Ability to view my TV guide in MainLobby
Surf the web via MainLobby user interface including sample links
Control over my irrigation system hardware (Rain8Net - not including the timing of what zones at what times which is similar to set as a wall mounted controller)
Ability to monitor all PCs on the LAN status and do WOL on the current PC (not including running the software on all other PCs - which takes about 5 minutes apiece - including configuration).
Connection to a XMPCR XM radio and display what's playing and change the channel and buy the What's playing album (not including the audio wiring to the matrix switcher or the custom logic on what zone to play under what conditions).
Control over a Sony XL1B changer as part of movie management (not including plugging in the firewire cable from changer to PC).
That is a little more detail. Now, any of the integration pros on this forum fully understand from the what's NOT included in that 30 minutes is a LOT of time and where an integration pros experience comes in. And, no kidding that I can do the above more efficiently from someone who never has used our software. But, our dealers have similar experience and can also do the above as I am not doing any miracles.
For example, installing an ELK security system can take a full day (or more) depending on that home's scope and features. But, the incremental time to get MainLobby to display the status of a zone graphically is about 20 more minutes in the software. The next zone can be less (or more - depending on how sophisticated one wants to get on the presentation and what has already been done - does the homeowner want a floorplan view of what zone is open? Does that graphical floorplan .jpg or .swf already exist? Did the integrator already build a floorplan view for Lighting that can be directly reused for a security scene? etc. These estimates are very particular with a given job and what Pros make their money with that experience (and "toolbox" of reusable scenes and macros that they accumulate with each job that makes them much more efficient to do a custom install).
There is a learning curve with all of the hardware and software needed for this profession. Some DIY'rs like yourself will take that on, other end users won't and call us for a dealer to do that for them, since they are too busy, make too much money in their day job, don't have the technical / experience skills needed but want the end result.
But please don't continue to misspeak my words into something that they never were as a means to promote CQC.
But please don't continue to misspeak my words into something that they never were as a means to promote CQC.
I have no ownership in CQC, I get no money any which way from Dean. My goal is to be the debunker of misleading product statements. I talk about issues with CQC quite openly in my various "HA Progress" threads around.
I deal in facts, and let the readers decide.
IVB, We (Cinemar) have NEVER said it takes 30 minutes to automate a home. That is how you choose to intepret for your own ends. What what we are really saying is that the base software load can take less than 30 minutes to begin get going and start to automate your home.
Hmmmm.
This all sounds to me like an other reason that Crestron sucks. I'd never use a Cerstron system. Not only is it over priced, hostile to DOYs because the software utilities are not publicly available but they have this bizarre programming language you need to learn. I'd recommend MainLobby. I'm told it does everything Crstron can for 1/1000 the price and it does not require any programming. With it, you ought to have your system up and working in about 5 minutes.
<name>, not 1/1000 the price, but maybe 1/2. and not 5 minutes but out of the box type functionality in a day and fully customized in much less time than competing products.
But, I did get your jist.
Did you say "30 minutes to automate a home"? No, i'll give you that. But when I get to the "it's going to take you hundreds of hours to do this" portion of the webinar, more than once folks have asked why Cinemar takes so much less time. I point out that it doesn't, as there's no 2 ways around the hardware portion.
Whether you're an IP or a DIY'er learning how to do this, using a pc-based system for HA is new for folks, and those of us with experience have to be extremely vigilant to not mislead people into having erroneous expectations. In my experience implementing largescale systems for Fortune 100 companies, misaligned expectations are the primary reason projects go over-time, over-budget, or hit time/budget but miss the desired outcome.
What is even more interesting than this debate, is how did smoothtlk show up within a day of IVB mentioning him.
smoothtlk
04-05-2008, 04:10 PM
Actually QQQ, it was "dumb luck" that I showed up here today. I have been a member here for something like a year, and occasionally drop in to surf.
Today, I was on Remote Central doing same (http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/mboard/rc-custom/thread.cgi?14138), and I saw a post that linked back to here. Immediately, I saw IVB / CQC and of course, the first post I read is IVB trying to slam MainLobby as he does very regularily, across many forums. I have attempted to correct his misread of my words a few times, and of course he continues misdirecting people on the words and way stretching the intent.
The post you link (EDIT - that IVB links to) to about the "day" is example that the discussion has come up before.
MainLobby (like CQC) is highly configurable. Closest comparison beyond CQC is probably Crestron on what one can do. C4 can't (as validated by a new MainLobby dealer that I met at EHX and is on his first MainLobby install already who "can't believe" what can be done compared to C4. In his words, everything can be done not just one way, but many ways...). Now, just last night I asked him what is harder. He said MainLobby has a higher learning curve to do customizations than C4, but has way more capability. This is his experience since EHX a few weeks ago. He has been a C4 dealer (and I believe a few other brands) for a while and is very active on C4's forum.
I have not gotten a good comparison with AMX yet, but I am sure that will come in time.
I can compare to Homeseer. MainLobby is Much easier to develop a touchscreen interface than Homeseer (which doesn't natively support touchscreens today). You have to learn how to Code to build a Homeseer UI. You don't need to know any formal software development "code" to use MainLobby (I am not a software developer at all). Now Homeseer is in the last laps towards building their own touchscreen interface, and I suspect they will do a nice job on it - especially when compared to non PC based systems.
From what I have seen of CQC (from glancing at some of IVBs excellent online web tutorial recordings) the task is similar to CUSTOMIZE the system. For OUT OF THE BOX functionality (which I don't believe CQC supports at all), MainLobby is FAR FASTER IMPLEMENTATION. Now, MainLobby still has more to go to make this more efficient than what it is today, and that work is ongoing with each new feature. I have read at least one post on CQC's forum of users suggesting to CQC that Dean too should spend more effort on "out of the box" (in their words - just like MainLobby). Dean is a sharp guy, and probably realizes just how much effort that is. I know how hard Dean is working..this is a lot of work to do what he (and Cinemar) is doing.
The issue is a system that works out of the box, vs. adding unique to any one install devices or capabilities that then functions end to end vs. total customization of GUI, logic, hardware, etc. MainLobby is faster out of the box, not as fast as say C4 in adding a typical device with non configurable UI, and has as much customization capability as any available system (that I have witnessed and have gotten responses from dealers on). With regards to total customization, MainLobby (and CQC) are much easier to customize than any of the other non PC based systems (those that can do, what these products can do).
We are working on usage of more drop downs for popular functionality vs. building that functionality by being experienced with our command syntax. CQC seems to do a good job here.
IVB, what list of capabilities can CQC do in an hour (two? three?) when installing to a fresh, functional PC that has all of the hardware interconnects right there? I posted a list...what would CQC's be? If the list is similar capability (never same, as that would be dumb luck), then we can agree that they both have very fast out of the box capability.
Anyway, If anyone wants to continue this dicussion, I suggest we leave IVBs thread as it is not what IVB intended it for (even though he opened the door) and create a new comparison thread if that is of any interest to anyone.
Dean_Roddey
04-05-2008, 07:03 PM
We don't really try to make CQC fast to install out of the box. The assumption is that all installers will want to create their own look and feel, which they believe adds value and works the way they want to do it, and that they will use that over and over with more or less adjustment per job. It'll take some time to create their initial look and feel, but it would anyway, even if their was a lot of out of the box look and feel, since any serious installer would want to differentiate themselves on this front. Once done, they will have the same benefits, but with a look and feel that they think is best.
So we've concentrated on providing the maximum amount of customization, not what works the fastest out of the box. The latter is more appealing to a DIY customer of course, but that's not the market we are primarily addressing.
smoothtlk
04-05-2008, 08:39 PM
That is one way to approach the market, Cinemar has a different approach for the same market. Nothing wrong with that at all.
Puts the original points into perspective now.
Anyway, If anyone wants to continue this dicussion, I suggest we leave IVBs thread as it is not what IVB intended it for (even though he opened the door)
God i'm happy Dean came in, this is clearly a forum where i'm outclassed. I have no idea how a post about CQC collateral and webinars with a token complaint about Cinemar setting expectations too low for installation time opened the door for 2 long posts with MainLobby marketing points each of which is longer than all my posts put together. Now that is some smooth talking :-) :-)
Back on topic, do any of the IP verified members want me to post future webinar info or any additional collateral? If not, I thank you for reading.
Back on topic, do any of the IP verified members want me to post future webinar info or any additional collateral? If not, I thank you for reading.
Sure, please do. Plus, it's always entertaining seeing you and the smoothtalker go at one another.
roddymcg
04-05-2008, 09:28 PM
God i'm happy Dean came in, this is clearly a forum where i'm outclassed. I have no idea how a post about CQC collateral and webinars with a token complaint about Cinemar setting expectations too low for installation time opened the door for 2 long posts with MainLobby marketing points each of which is longer than all my posts put together. Now that is some smooth talking :-) :-)
Back on topic, do any of the IP verified members want me to post future webinar info or any additional collateral? If not, I thank you for reading.
I would be interested to see what you have going on, the wortst I could do is learn something... lol
2ndRick
04-05-2008, 09:58 PM
God i'm happy Dean came in, this is clearly a forum where i'm outclassed. I have no idea how a post about CQC collateral and webinars with a token complaint about Cinemar setting expectations too low for installation time opened the door for 2 long posts with MainLobby marketing points each of which is longer than all my posts put together. Now that is some smooth talking :-) :-)
Back on topic, do any of the IP verified members want me to post future webinar info or any additional collateral? If not, I thank you for reading.Vivek,
If I get a vote on the matter, you are welcome to continue here.
I think that many pros will agree that many of us were able to glean many things from the widely varying (and sometimes insane) DIY perspective on touchscreen remotes in the early years over at ProntoEdit and Remote Central.
I get a big kick out of the unique things that many of the advanced DIYs come up with when nobody is tracking (or trying to bill for) the development time.
As long as this does not turn into the same "anti-pro" cesspool that is seen on the automation area of AVS, you can do as you wish.
I get a big kick out of the unique things that many of the advanced DIYs come up with when nobody is tracking (or trying to bill for) the development time.
Heh, that's certainly true. What I might do is list some of the stranger stuff that i'm doing; it may be old hat to those used to doing extreme customization, but some of you may find it interesting. It's not CQC-specific, as it's just my bizarre assembly of pre-existing functionality into a series of steps that make life useful for me; just as doable with AMX, Crestron, or (gasp!) MainLobby :-)
As long as this does not turn into the same "anti-pro" cesspool that is seen on the automation area of AVS, you can do as you wish.
I absolutely understand, and thank you all for your indulgence. As QQQ & Alan have pointed out, although 3ish years back I "didn't get it", I've since learned how freaking hard this stuff is after spending >2 years and not yet finishing, so stepping in to attempt to correct my wayward brethren is what I attempt. Well, most of them anyhow, there are a few that are buttheads and even tell me i'm full of it (even though i've walked that path), so sometimes I just point out the amount of time i've spent and leave it at that.
I don't think there'll be another webinar for perhaps 5-6 weeks as I don't think there's enough demand for it. If the IP or RC crowds wants a pro-only session, I'm certainly naive enough to attempt delivering that. Doesn't have to be a 90+minute session, I could dial it back based on desire. The easiest timeslot for me personally is 8:30am PST on Saturday mornings, but Sunday 8:30am PST or Friday 6:30 PST could also be done. I've got a gotomeeting.com account that allows 25 concurrent attendees, so there's plenty of room.
- Vivek
sirroundsound
04-06-2008, 07:39 AM
I found the video link excellent. I certainly have a much better idea of what and how about CQC now.
One of the biggest problems we face as a small, but very high end CI firm is trying to keep everything we do in house. I have designed and installed many AMX systems over the years, and I even have learned enough about the programming to enable me to trouble shoot simple issues. But I am not an AMX programmer and we don't do enough projects to warrant paying for a full time programmer. If I was to learn, we wouldn't do enough projects to make me proficient.
We deal with other systems that are more of an out of the box solution such as Netstreams or RTI. These are nice and easy to set up, but as typically is the case, they have short comings that mean not being able to offer or do everything we would like in a project.
I am still in the "what about this or that" stage but,
with a little work up front, CQC looks like a potential solution we could use for a variety of projects.
2 things:
1) There's now a 2nd recording that focuses on advanced template creation & automated events located here. (http://www.myhometheaterpc.com/downloads/IE-201_Events-202.wmv) IIRC, there were 2 pros and 4-5 DIY'ers on that session, so you'll get some relevant questions and walkthrough. It's about 100MB, and you also need that www.gotomeeting.com/codec installed on your machine to watch.
2) I'll be @CES in the Vidabox booth, showing the CQC software running on the Vidabox hardware. That booth is not technically on the floor, it's in the LV Hilton, but if you want to stop by I can give you whatever live walkthrough you'd like.
I'm sure I'll also be drinking heavily Fri & Sat nights as this is a mini-vacation for me, if you just want to hang for drinks and listen to me spout why zWave isn't the worst choice I've made that'll be fun too.
- Vivek (IVB)
If anyone wants to have a drink, I'll be at "Tempo", a bar in the LV Hilton on Fri & Sat from 6:15-ish->7:30. No guarantees after that.
Here's a pic of me at my birthday party recently, guess how much I had to drink and then double it, and you'll still be off by 50% :-) I cut out the pic of my friend to keep reputations intact, but left the whitespace there so you can all imagine yourselves in that enviable position.
I'll also be wearing a Vidabox shirt.
http://www.myhometheaterpc.com/images/IMG_1709.jpg
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