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View Full Version : HELP!!! Speaker Level A/B switch Best Practice?



olysan
10-01-2005, 11:17 AM
How would you guys handle the following scenario:

This a retrofit whole house audio system.

In master bedroom customer wants to use speakers for whole house audio, until he turns television on, then he'd like TV audio (routed through a local receiver for amplification to speaker level) to take over.

Wiring Plan: From VC/KP location, 16/4 and 4 conductor UTP (not cat 5) runs back to head-end. 16/4 also runs to local receiver from VC/KP. 14/2 runs to speakers from VC/KP.

What's the cleanest way to handle this?

Mike

RobbieS
10-01-2005, 02:26 PM
Any chance of adding any more cabling????

If not you could use something like this

http://www.speakercraft.com/manuals/sl_one_manual.pdf

You would bury it in the wall. Use the UTP cable to power it up. Hook up the receiver to the sense side. The BG Music to the input a side. Then run out to the VC and up to speakers.

Only thing that sucks here is that the customer will still have to use in wall volume control for volume. So if he is in bed and it is turned all the way down he has to get up.


If you could get a 4 conductor from the VC to the television then you could wire it up a little differently.

Run from BG music into VC. Out of VC to TV stereo. Install A/B switcher at stereo. Run out of A/B switcher back up to the speakers. This would defeat the In-Wall VC when he was listening to TV sound so it wouldn't matter where it was set at.

You can also get amps that will do the switching for you. Sherbourn comes to mind.

Pilgrim
10-01-2005, 05:22 PM
Unless I'm misinterpreting the wiring scheme, why couldn't you use the speakercraft piece at the vc/kp and wire it after the vc? I don't like burrying things in the wall, but I have done it with no problems to date.

If I remember correctly, the switcher will fit into a single gang opening if your using LV boxes. If it's an enclosed box, carefully 'remove' it and install a LV retro.

RobbieS
10-01-2005, 06:19 PM
Unless I'm misinterpreting the wiring scheme, why couldn't you use the speakercraft piece at the vc/kp and wire it after the vc? I don't like burrying things in the wall, but I have done it with no problems to date.

If I remember correctly, the switcher will fit into a single gang opening if your using LV boxes. If it's an enclosed box, carefully 'remove' it and install a LV retro.

You are right. I had just woken up from a little nap and wasn't thinking clearly.

Pilgrim
10-01-2005, 06:56 PM
You are right. I had just woken up from a little nap and wasn't thinking clearly.

A NAP!!?!

Must be nice :wink:

I just finished cutting 38 holes in 5/8" drywall for some CRS Ones at a Mariott that is being built here!!

They signed the contract 9 months ago and then called us a day before they were going to start 'rocking' the ceiling! That didn't leave enough time to order the pre-wire brackets and it was a mad dash(and a long day) just to get the wires in place!

I think I'm ready for a nap now(wife says"not until you shower" :roll:)

RobbieS
10-01-2005, 07:00 PM
Don't you know you are supposed to keep those in stock. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Pilgrim
10-01-2005, 07:14 PM
I normally have 12 or so in stock. It only takes 2 days to get them.

The way I feel right now, I think I'll order a couple hundred Monday :lol: :lol:

olysan
10-01-2005, 07:51 PM
Thanks guys. I saw that same piece on Xantech's website, and thought it would probably work.

Pilgrim
10-01-2005, 08:34 PM
I wouldn't be suprised if the Speakercraft peice IS a Xantech 'switcher'.

And, yes, they do work!

Once it's wired up and the trigger delay is set, you can pretty much forget about it.

olysan
10-02-2005, 10:07 AM
Just realized the Xantech piece is not automatic, it's ir controlled.

OEX
10-02-2005, 06:50 PM
I have done this in the past. If I am following what you want, here's the deal. Wire from the head end to the VC. From the VC to a Sonance ASAP1, from the ASAP1 to the speakers and from the TV to the ASAP1 with a VARIABLE out. The TV will over ride the speakers and the TV remote will control the volume.

Check it out!
http://www.sonance.com/image_data/downloads/1055530901.pdf

olysan
10-02-2005, 07:53 PM
I need something I can bury in the wall and I don't need amplification. Thanks though.

RobbieS
10-02-2005, 09:28 PM
I need something I can bury in the wall and I don't need amplification. Thanks though.

The speakerCraft piece will fit in the wall no problem through a single gang ring.

I looked at the niles and sonance pieces and they are to large to put in the wall through a single gang opening.

DougS
10-27-2005, 12:33 AM
Did a similar job and used Russound AB 3.2, http://www.russound.com/speaker_selectors.htm

IntegratorinAZ
04-04-2006, 05:41 PM
New question on the same note.

What is the "best way" to wire if we want to use the TV speakers for front sound and in-ceiling speakers to act as the rear's?

In the past, we've tried several variations including; line drivers & receivers, speakercraft A/B switches and room control boxes.

To note:
Crestron Control and head-end racked receivers (unless someone tells me there is a way to get "surround" or at least decent sound without one).

We just want to know best practice so we can make it law with the designer and have some conformity job to job... Thanks

tomciara
04-04-2006, 11:05 PM
I think what I read in the same post was, Crestron system and television speakers for fronts.

This is not good.

Gotta get some decent speakers for fronts. Disservice to have high grade gear everywhere and TV speakers handling audio.

Keep in mind the TV speakers cost the manufacturer about $5 in China.

smcnally
04-05-2006, 06:09 AM
I think what I read in the same post was, Crestron system and television speakers for fronts.

This is not good.

Gotta get some decent speakers for fronts. Disservice to have high grade gear everywhere and TV speakers handling audio.

Keep in mind the TV speakers cost the manufacturer about $5 in China.

I agree. I would only use the TV speakers if they were the only speakers used when watching TV. We actually do it often (when the client asks for it). We use a Crestron CNX-RMCLV and set the TV to a set volume level, then control the volume with the RMCLV. When any video source is on, it will turn the amp channel for that room off and the volume and mute control is then buffered to the RMCLV. It works great. The only time this method needs to be modified is for people that like to watch a game, but listen to the radio at the same time.

IntegratorinAZ
04-05-2006, 10:29 AM
I was not clear. I hardly understand the questions from my guys, let alone have the ability to translate it, in writing, to the board.

I know that TV speakers are lame but like, Steve, we do have an occasional person request it and using the RMCLV would work for us.

Occasionally, people do want to use all external speakers and it is just a matter of allowing the in-ceiling speakers serve double duty as dist music and rears. What sort of added amplification do you use? Wire configuration? Do you always use some sort of added piece like a/b switches, or line drivers/receiver route as we have done? Is there a way to do it without the extras?

Almost a very different question; We have one client with an outdoor TV and a Sonance AMP (not sure which one but my tech says that we have no way to control it properly). The TV sounds like crap and we are adding new speakers to it, but won't have the ability to accurately do surround, and the guy is fine with that. He watches CNN and an occasional TV show, and needs to hear the voices. How can we make that sound decent for him? We can add a receiver, we can add wires, we are open to suggestions, but are seeking your expertise. (one additional comment on this is that it is an adopted project and the programming was not written by our guy and the original equipment was not spec'ed by us. We have done a mini overhaul on his system adding a pvid and cleaning up the program to a degree but the next step is a total re-write.)

I guess that no two jobs (especially adopted ones) are ever alike and each time we go on site, we run up against a new problem, and have to be creative enough to find a new solution. The nature of the beast and the best part about the job I imagine to the guys in the field.

As far as best practice is concerned, I realize it only applies to our pre-wires and in-house designed systems.