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  1. #1
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    CineVersum Projection Thread

    This is the place to chat about CineVersum Projection with John Caldwell of StJohn Group, US importer for the CineVersum product line.

    CineVersum came to life as the specialty home theater products division of Barco of Belgium.

    Barco (an acronym for Belgian American Radio Company) started in 1934 assembing American kit radios for sale to European consumers. Over the years, Barco became known for class leading direct view and projection displays for the consumer and commercial markets.

    BarcoProjection started as a division of Barco in the early-80s with a line of CRT models.
    Barco established a home theater division in the mid-90s, and launched the CineVersum brand early in this decade.

    Although the CineVersum has been spun off and is now an independant entity, Barco still powers the DLP models in the line. Barco's projection lineup is now directed to digital cinema for commercial theaters, entertainment (stage and screen) and other commercial channels.
    Last edited by 2ndRick; 01-27-2008 at 12:54 PM.
    Rick Murphy
    Allnet Distributing
    IL-WI-MN-ND-SD-MI-IN-KY-OH-PA-WV
    847-860-0082 office
    www.allnetdistributing.com
    rick.murphy@allnetdistributing.com

  2. #2
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    Re: CineVersum Projection Thread

    The CineVersum BlackWing Three is now available.
    http://www.cineversum.com/HomeCinema...s/prod_bw3.htm



    The BlackWing Three projector is based on the award winning 30,000-1 CR LCoS D-ILA engine.
    That engine is built into a proprietary hot-rodded chassis, with numerous performance and aesthetic advantages by CineVersum which allow it to outshine it's competition and the OE product in numerous ways.

    The most obvious difference is that the distinctive chassis. Designed by Pineau & LePorcher of Paris, the chassis is handsome and functional. The ABS-PC chassis adds an additional 3dB of noise isolation over the Japanese models based upon this chipset.

    CineVersum has a special finishing option which allows dealers to submit color chips or Pantone colors for custom color matching.

    Here are some shots of custom finished units.

    Here is a model in a silver finish:




    Here is another in pearl white:



    Rick Murphy
    Allnet Distributing
    IL-WI-MN-ND-SD-MI-IN-KY-OH-PA-WV
    847-860-0082 office
    www.allnetdistributing.com
    rick.murphy@allnetdistributing.com

  3. #3
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    Re: CineVersum Projection Thread

    CineVersum also offers a full line of scalers and CinemaScope lens/sled products.

    Here is the Master Four video processor.



    This scaler featuers the following inputs:
    • 4 HDMI (version 1.3 with HDCP)
    • 1 RGBHV / Component (5 x BNC connectors)
    • 2 Component Video (3 x RCA connectors)
    • 2 Composite Video (RCA connector)
    • 2 S-Video
    It can also be ordered with an optional HD-SDI input to accept modded DVD players such as the modded 777ES Sony changer (which is compatible with the media controllers by Escient, Request, Control4, etc.).

    This connectivity allows the unmolested digital signal from the transport to go directly to the processor engine.
    The convenience of a controller/changer combo with a World class interface can now feature the absolute top performance of the best upconverting single disc players.

    Here are a few high points about the scaling technology:
    • the latest Mosquito Noise Reduction
    • edge enhancement
    • advanced source management allows dedicated settings to be recalled for each specific input
    • total overscan control
    • advanced Theatre Mode for use with the Theatre Concept anamorphic CinemaScope 2.35:1 aspect system.
    Last edited by 2ndRick; 01-26-2008 at 02:45 AM.
    Rick Murphy
    Allnet Distributing
    IL-WI-MN-ND-SD-MI-IN-KY-OH-PA-WV
    847-860-0082 office
    www.allnetdistributing.com
    rick.murphy@allnetdistributing.com

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    Re: CineVersum Projection Thread

    JVC and DVDO?

  5. #5
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    Re: CineVersum Projection Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 2ndRick
    Yes, I have a question. When do we get to see the little aliens controlling the big black War of the World eyes?

    Also, if I walk into one of the razor sharp corners when the big black eye is hung on my ceiling, does it suck all the ensuing blood out?
    Email: remotecentral@gmail.com

    Click here to clean your monitor.

  6. #6
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    Re: CineVersum Projection Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jayson
    JVC and DVDO?
    JVC makes the engine, there are many proprietary components to the BlackWing which take it above the OE product.

    Much like there are drastic differences in performance among the various Dark Chip (x) DLP models from various manufacturers, there are differences between the CineVersum, the OE vendor, and competitors using D-ILA LCoS technology.

    The BlackWing Three (BW-3) was recently displayed at the St John Group suite during CES, and many people considered it the best image at the show over the usual top contenders, including JVCs demonstrations.

    John tells me that there were many jaws on the floor, and that it had such a buzz that the top writers are all jockeying to get the first review of the BW-3 system.

    John says we will have it for a period of time here in Chicago. Perhaps you can drive up and see it for yourself when we have it set up.

    The Master Four video processors definitely use Anchor Bay processing (it says so on the display in that photo!), but I will let John speak to any differences between the Master Four and DVDOs product.

    In addition, there are also single chip and 3-chip DLP based projectors which are powered by Barco.
    Rick Murphy
    Allnet Distributing
    IL-WI-MN-ND-SD-MI-IN-KY-OH-PA-WV
    847-860-0082 office
    www.allnetdistributing.com
    rick.murphy@allnetdistributing.com

  7. #7
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    Re: CineVersum Projection Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by QQQ
    Yes, I have a question. When do we get to see the little aliens controlling the big black War of the World eyes?

    Also, if I walk into one of the razor sharp corners when the big black eye is hung on my ceiling, does it suck all the ensuing blood out?
    The vampire module is an optional accessory at this time, it will be outlined on the price sheet.
    Rick Murphy
    Allnet Distributing
    IL-WI-MN-ND-SD-MI-IN-KY-OH-PA-WV
    847-860-0082 office
    www.allnetdistributing.com
    rick.murphy@allnetdistributing.com

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    Re: CineVersum Projection Thread

    There are lots of people who use the same DILA engine. Just as you stated there are several people who use the same TI DLP engine. This looks like the JVC with some wings thrown on it (but the wings were designed by the french). What are the differences? The specs are identical, other than the CineVersum being a pound lighter??

    Not knocking the product, just seriously would like to know what they changed.

  9. #9
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    Re: CineVersum Projection Thread

    Please post when it is all set up in Chicago. I would like to have a look see.
    Jeremy W.
    ISF, HAA

  10. #10
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    Re: CineVersum Projection Thread




    Thanks for the opportunity to set the record straight about Cineversum.

    ON THE QUESTION OF “DIFFERENCES”
    End users won't be asking for differences between the JVC and CV. People don't do this with NEC and Runco now do they? If an AVS Forum type or an end user does ask for the differences between the two units, they are doing it largely for academic reasons. They know from the very beginning that they won’t buy the Cineversum. They want to justify their purchase of the JVC piece. It's human nature. Engaging with these end users is a waste of time from my own experience.

    Someone mentioned above that there are lots of manufacturers using the JVC engine. Not true. To date, in North America, there is only one other --Dreamvision (CV's sister company owned by TEC of France.)

    Most people who buy a Cineversum do not even know that JVC makes projectors. Meridian, at one time sold a clone of the HD10K, I mean a real clone (they just changed the label on it), but at 70% higher price. And they sold it...

    Let's look at the flat panel market for a moment. Almost ALL of the models on the market are clones. Even though it's a real specs-oriented market (in theory),the only spec at stake is the resolution. Ask anyone what were the reasons why selected their model of flat panel and they'll answer: 1.) its the resolution I needed and 2.) I like the design and the brand name. Did he know that it was an NEC or an LG clone? No! Does he really care? No!

    The only thing that was OEM'd by JVC is the actual 3-chip LCOS panels that we use. Everything else is proprietary.


    INDUSTRIAL DESIGN
    We do all our own tooling and industrial design. The two projectors don't look anything alike. Like it or not, the industrial design of this unit is highly differentiating. In the end, people who buy a Cineversum want a Cineversum. The French design of the BW series is in many people's opinion is really attractive in itself. Best proof of it is the sales manager of JVC France who asked us recently if he could buy us a BW2 for his house. Interior designers and design conscious clients will pick our look every time over a JVC. Try it yourself and see what they say.

    Rick is partially correct. While the housing is indeed unique, its design actually keeps the unit cooler. The materials we use are also very important. The chassis in ABS-PC is a real achievement. This material, comes from the car industry and is resistant to shocks, high temperature and absorbs heat and noise better. Making a mold like the Blackwing (4 molds actually) requires a real expertise. Months of work for designers, engineers and industrials.

    The reason why the Blackwings run 3 dB quieter (21 dB, quietest on the market today) has primarily to do with the software the unit is built around. More on this in a moment.

    The ability to make custom colors units is also important. As Rick has posted pictures of above, even if 90% of our sales were in “black” color, the possibility of having a white one or a silver one, or soon a chrome one, is a real weapon in terms of communication. High end, design oriented clients and their interior designers prefer having a choice. Always. The paint we use is the same one which is used in the car industry. It is extremely expensive. Every piece is unique and demands a lot of time and quality control. And it needs 3 weeks more to get dry.

    The gold ring of BW3 for instance may at first seem inconsequential. But they are made out of a real high-technology process, called sputtering. That is to say physical vapor deposition. This technique is used to decorate luxurious items (bottles (of cognac, perfume, etc), parts in luxurious cars or motorcycles...). And this technique will be used for the future chrome-wing limited edition.

    Here's a neat feature for you. Push the BW all the way against a back wall and the wing like overhang actually provides for a protective raceway and thus protects the HDMI inputs so they can't be crushed or bent. The HDMI cable can thus run out the side of unit.


    COLORIMETRY AND CALIBRATION
    What really separates the BW's is it's software and color gamut. Out of the box, CV's BW's are pre-tuned for CIE-709 HD color space. All of the major complaints about the JVC's in reviews so far to date have been about how they are not pre-tuned tuned for the 709 HD color space. Once the pre-tuning is set, its difficult if not impossible to get the tuning back to where the home theater specialists wants to be.

    Both the BW2 and 3, run 3 dB quieter as a result of its home theater centric software tuning. CV has eliminated (unlike the JVC models) anything to do with the presentation market or the digital cinema market tunings (read as oversaturated tunings like that used in Bollywood digital theaters.



    The RS2 which is sold in the US is the "professional" version of the JVC product. JVC has 4 different types of software tunings that they offer to their OEM customers. They are basically: Asia, Europe Consumer, Europe Pro and North America. The CV models are based on the Europe Pro calibration. Basic settings are very close to CRT projectors. Our units are different in as much as, we slightly de-saturated the original product.

    Even if almost perfect, every projector is different from its brother. Our technicians have access to some hidden menus and software. Thanks to their experience, their sensitiveness and to some tools/patterns, they calibrate each unit one by one. This optimization is aimed at providing accurate balance of grey scale (ideal balance between white and black), color space and gamma tracking. We also align the white field uniformity in order to get a wide palette of luminance.

    We've never said that what we do is better. It is to our taste. It doesn’t prevent the installer to adapt the projector on site. But it gives a very good deal out of the box.

    In Greg Rogers' recent review of the RS2 in WSR, he didn't like the projector's colorimetry. He proposed to have an external scaler with color management to correct the color balance. Note: this projector is particularly stable (dE measurement) with default calibration even in the low IRE (5-30 IRE) domain which is exceptional for digital projector (compared to DLP by example). This makes the projector very easy to setup with the basic OFFSET and GAIN settings available with our Master Four scaler/processor.

    The alternative to this problem is using the custom gamma menu. We also noticed that Greg Rogers didn't have the PC software for advanced gamma settings, which can correct the color deviation on the whole 0-100 IRE range. Using the CV Blackwing's gamma software is quite intuitive and very precise compared to the projector menu but obtaining an accurate calibration requires a lot of time and work with dedicated equipment. It’s the reason why we don’t want it to be public (it is only downloadable on our secret page, what we call “advanced users”). Our dealers are welcome to write me off-line once you have a CV projector for how to access this.

    Anyway using the default factory values insures to get the most from the projector within a balanced color reproduction. Some would like the oversaturated, unrealistic colors and some would prefer the righteousness of the SMPTE-C standards.


    Mr. Rogers also noted that he could only use the built-in test pattern to make the focus and zoom adjustment on the RS2. With a CV, you can refer to our user manual (R599760 pg.7) to properly program an IR and RS232 device to make the focus and zoom adjustments using your video source internal test patterns (like the master's test patterns for instance or your DVD-player using a calibration DVD). This is something we insisted a lot on in our discussions with JVC. We too were not satisfied with the built-in constraint.

    Greg criticized the number of inputs on the JVC. Using a Master4 as found in our BW3 Ultimate bundle, will extend our projector's input possibilities including RGBHV and 12V trigger outputs.

    THE CINEVESUM CONCEPT
    We also give a very strong attention to the system. Our Master scalers have been specifically modified and optimized for our products software. Our 2.35 Theatre kit has been specifically designed and built for our products. This is also something that our customers do appreciate a lot. While we use a premium grade Schneider lens in our 2.35 solution, we have tooled our own sled, our own very quick and quiet motor and integrated ceiling mount mechanism.

    Thanks to our Master processor bundle, we can address any fine tuning problems that we can’t address with the projector itself. The master bundle is not only an extra-profit opportunity for us (we don’t make a big profit with scalers), it is mainly a solid tool to get differentiated from our competitors including JVC.


    QUALITY CONTROL
    All our BW projectors are assembled in our facilities by our technicians. Each unit is tested twice, before and after the manufacturing process. Of the nearly 3000 pieces of BW2 and 3 shipped world wide to date, only one unit failed on the field so far. This is a state of the art defect rate and proof of the process used by CV. We also check pixels and noise level. Any unit which is not conform to our expectations is put away and returned back to the vendor. This painstaking job helped avoid a lot of “faulty out of the box” problems. According to our fellow CV distributors and dealers around the world, this is a real differentiation compared to JVC.

    THE BUSINESS EQUATION
    DIY'er buy the JVC and the dealers who sell them make very low margins. Pros who know what they are doing and how to sell a better picture and have the ability to create a better picture with the inherent tools we’ve provided, will make lots of money selling Cineversum.

    THE CINEVERSUM NETWORK
    At least 50% of our success is due to our dealers. We don’t sell on the internet (unlike Sony or JVC). People who buy very expensive projectors are extremely driven by the installer. They just know enough to be dangerous when it comes to video-projection. You can’t imagine the kind of questions we receive or the number of customers whose only connection to their $28,000 projector is the video cable. That is absurd, but it’s also the reality. If you would like to be a part of the exclusive network we are building, and want to differentiate your business from the masses, then I invite you to contact me. John@stjohngroup.com


    Good viewing and listening!

    John Caldwell
    Chief Impresario
    Grace Motif, Inc
    Luxury Technology for Designed Environments

    Artcoustic, Cineversum, Image Screens, Waterfall Audio

    http://www.gracemotif.com
    john@gracemotif.com

    Also, Vice President US Sales
    Indy Audio Labs.
    Makers of Acurus and Aragon Electronics
    Networked amps and preamps. Made in USA
    http://www.indyaudiolabs.com

    tel: 480-463-4248, fax: 805-856-2212

    "Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere." Albert Einstein

 

 
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