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  1. #11
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    FP Crazy's Avatar
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    Re: CineVersum Projection Thread

    John,

    John Lee (A Plus Electronics) here. You may remember me from the old Kenwood days.

    A few questions:

    What is the distinction between the BW2 and 3? Both include the scaler right? What is the MSRP of each product. You mention $28k. What is that for?

    Since you guys seem to be paying such close attention to the PQ of the finished product, how do you get around adding an anamorphic lens? Even Schneider optics add some level of color aberrations and fringing. And it is inherent in an anamorphic lens to soften the image a smidget and also affect focus a bit. Specifically on the outer edges of the optics. I think 2:35 is a cool experience, but it typically does pervert the image (from a sheer technical standpoint) and those perversions are easy to see with test patterns.

    Are you offering a curved, masking screen to help combat the focus issues or are the Schneider optics you employ free for this burden?

    What type of calibration gear are you using on your FPs? Much of the affordable equipment doesn't do a very good job of measuring color temp in the 5-20 IRE range. I assume you have invested in elite gear to overcome that short coming of the more affordable calibration gear?

    It all looks exciting. I'd like to learn and hear more.
    Recent research has determined that Eunuchs live longer. The theory is that a lack of testosterone increases their life span. Excuse me for being Captain Obvious but has it occurred to anyone that they live longer because they don't have women around sucking their life force out of their bodies?

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  2. #12
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    Re: CineVersum Projection Thread

    John (FP),
    I cannot speak for your region, but in IL/WI, the local reps are responsible for all perversion.

    Seriously,
    the BW2 is based on the RS-1 light engine (20k:1 CR), and the BW3 is based on the new RS-2 light engine (30k:1 CR).

    The LCOS based models start at $9,995 MSRP.
    The top of the line, full dress system for 2.35:1 is $29,800 at MSRP.
    Last edited by 2ndRick; 02-20-2008 at 09:53 PM.
    Rick Murphy
    Allnet Distributing
    IL-WI-MN-ND-SD-MI-IN-KY-OH-PA-WV
    847-860-0082 office
    www.allnetdistributing.com
    rick.murphy@allnetdistributing.com

  3. #13
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    Re: CineVersum Projection Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by FP Crazy
    John,

    John Lee (A Plus Electronics) here. You may remember me from the old Kenwood days.

    A few questions:

    What is the distinction between the BW2 and 3? Both include the scaler right? What is the MSRP of each product. You mention $28k. What is that for?

    Since you guys seem to be paying such close attention to the PQ of the finished product, how do you get around adding an anamorphic lens? Even Schneider optics add some level of color aberrations and fringing. And it is inherent in an anamorphic lens to soften the image a smidget and also affect focus a bit. Specifically on the outer edges of the optics. I think 2:35 is a cool experience, but it typically does pervert the image (from a sheer technical standpoint) and those perversions are easy to see with test patterns.

    Are you offering a curved, masking screen to help combat the focus issues or are the Schneider optics you employ free for this burden?

    What type of calibration gear are you using on your FPs? Much of the affordable equipment doesn't do a very good job of measuring color temp in the 5-20 IRE range. I assume you have invested in elite gear to overcome that short coming of the more affordable calibration gear?

    It all looks exciting. I'd like to learn and hear more.
    Hi John,
    Long time no speak. I trust that you are well.

    The BW2 retails for $9,995. This projector won't do the vertical stretch for HD material. Only SD.

    BW3 retails for $13,500. (30,000 to 1 contrast ratio, motorized zoom and focus, better optics, HDMI 1.3, does the on board vertical stretch of HD sources for 2.35 optics.

    The Theater Concept kit for BW2 or BW3 (contains the lens, ultrafast and quiet motorized slider, base mounting plate for table or ceiling, and 12v RF trigger) is 12,000 MSRP.

    The CV Master Three video processor (4 HDMI 1.2 inputs) is $3700.

    The CV Master Three "Theater" video processor (Master Three with 12V trigger output and Cineversum Theater mode) is $4300 MSRP.

    The CV Master Four video processor (4 HDMI 1.3 inputs, day night model, HDTV and mosquito noise reduction etc) is $4600 MSRP.

    We have bundles too:

    Blackwing Two Pro: Projector+Master 3 = 13,500 MSRP

    Blackwing Two Theater: Projector+Master Three "Theater" version = $14,200 MSRP.

    Blackwing Three Pro: Projector+ Master 3 = $16,200

    Blackwing Three Ultimate: Projector+Master 4 = 17,800

    The 28K that is referred to is the Blackwing Three Pro and the 2.35 "Theater Concept Kit". We had several Vidikron dealers at the show tell us that our package smoked their DLP based package by 10 grand or more.

    You are correct, PQ is central to our approach. That's why we chose Schneider. This is the best quality for home theater sized screens and focal distances that we could find. Its arguably in a class with Isco and light years ahead of Prismasonic and Panamorph in our opinion. You are correct, placing ANY lens in front of the on-board lens will add some distortion --and light loss. We feel that Schneider compromises least.

    The curvature of image in test patterns that you mention, is more prominent when the lens is mounted is mounted too close to the screen (at the front limitation of its F/D. But we've found that if you mount the projector at the back half of its focal distance, then the curvature is mitagated greatly. One dirty little secret to keep in mind, is that a 2.35 lens will shorten the focal distance of any projector. Here's the math. Let say that you have an OEM focal distance of 1.4 to 2.8 -- like both of our LCoS based CV's have (BW2 and BW3). Divide 1.4 and 2.8, by 1.33 and now the f/d is 1.08 to 2.1. Shorter than before.

    You are correct John when you suggest that you can hide the curvature from a lens that is mounted too close to the screen, with a curved screen. You can get the geometry a bit better, but the real question is, is it in focus? Digital projection was designed to be flat period. We had some pretty good success in bringing the Screen Research curved screens to market. With our new brand, Screen Excellence, we too will have curved screens soon. The key to a good curved screen, is to survey all the engineers at all of the lens suppliers and ask them what will distort the picture the least. The curve must be very gentle and it increases with screen size. But I wouldn't stress too much over this. Clients love it. A very large curved screen with a proper lens mounted at the proper distance is very engrossing and will envelop the client. They will definately be more immersed in the movie and it will create the willing suspension of disbelief that much quicker with a curved screen.

    If you think about it, much of what we do in home theater has little to do with being perfectly accurate. We use way over-bassed systems often with devices like tactile drivers or movable seats and such But they offer a great experience for the client, and THAT is the true definition of luxury entertainment in our book.

    We've left the calibration gear to date to the factory engineers at CV in Paris. We are very early on in our roll-out in the video market. Our engineers have a very complete lab and a very high reference and I will provide a list of test gear they use and recommend soon for you. I'm sure that my company will be in the market for this gear soon for this. Before I drop some bucks, I will tap our colleague Joel Silver for his recommendations. I will let you know what his latest recommedations are for both the costs effective and cost no object solutions. What do you feel are the best buys out there today?
    Last edited by 2ndRick; 02-20-2008 at 09:54 PM.
    Good viewing and listening!

    John Caldwell
    Chief Impresario
    Grace Motif, Inc
    Luxury Technology for Designed Environments

    Artcoustic, Cineversum, Image Screens, Waterfall Audio

    http://www.gracemotif.com
    john@gracemotif.com

    Also, Vice President US Sales
    Indy Audio Labs.
    Makers of Acurus and Aragon Electronics
    Networked amps and preamps. Made in USA
    http://www.indyaudiolabs.com

    tel: 480-463-4248, fax: 805-856-2212

    "Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere." Albert Einstein

  4. #14
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    Re: CineVersum Projection Thread

    For the record, I would like to correct a comment I made previously as to why the Blackwing 2 and 3 projectors run 3dB quieter than any JVC OEM models. While its true that the calibration and internal software are what set this unit apart, it is actually the design of the casing that indeed creates the lower operating noise level.

    Thanks for letting me set record straight.
    Good viewing and listening!

    John Caldwell
    Chief Impresario
    Grace Motif, Inc
    Luxury Technology for Designed Environments

    Artcoustic, Cineversum, Image Screens, Waterfall Audio

    http://www.gracemotif.com
    john@gracemotif.com

    Also, Vice President US Sales
    Indy Audio Labs.
    Makers of Acurus and Aragon Electronics
    Networked amps and preamps. Made in USA
    http://www.indyaudiolabs.com

    tel: 480-463-4248, fax: 805-856-2212

    "Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere." Albert Einstein

  5. #15
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    Re: CineVersum Projection Thread

    StJohn Group will begin shipping the new Cineversum Blackwing One model on approx. Dec. 1, 2008. This is a 1400 lumen, pre-tuned to D65, CIR re: 709 High Def color space, 15,000:1 dynamic contrast ratio projector.
    MSRP is $6500.
    http://teamsync.cebiz.net/7B8BF369AE85497E8F00872FD38BBF4E

    Write me for more details and dealer program.

    Be well
    John Caldwell
    StJohn Group, Inc.
    805-647-3779
    john@stjohngroup.com
    Good viewing and listening!

    John Caldwell
    Chief Impresario
    Grace Motif, Inc
    Luxury Technology for Designed Environments

    Artcoustic, Cineversum, Image Screens, Waterfall Audio

    http://www.gracemotif.com
    john@gracemotif.com

    Also, Vice President US Sales
    Indy Audio Labs.
    Makers of Acurus and Aragon Electronics
    Networked amps and preamps. Made in USA
    http://www.indyaudiolabs.com

    tel: 480-463-4248, fax: 805-856-2212

    "Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere." Albert Einstein

 

 
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